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I'm confused. What preceded warp to zero?
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TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#81 - 2012-09-23 12:28:36 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lookee there, a meme that I've never heard before. Roll

I like how "umadbro" is your response to being called out for being a jackass.


Well, are you mad or not?

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.
Ender's Momma
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#82 - 2012-09-23 14:09:48 UTC
So basically this is a thread about poor pvpers who can't catch targets, and want a game mechanic that will allow them to catch targets easier. htfu and learn to pvp.
TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#83 - 2012-09-23 14:11:40 UTC
Ender's Momma wrote:
So basically this is a thread about poor pvpers who can't catch targets, and want a game mechanic that will allow them to catch targets easier. htfu and learn to pvp.


Actually, it's a (now obsolete) thread asking for information about prior mechanics before they were updated.

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#84 - 2012-09-23 14:56:11 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Oh, I'm not saying it would be perfect.
for instance, they would have to rework slightly how to spawn player around a gate, perhaps increasing the range.
(Because some players would be 'behind' the bubble and it would be annoying as hell to have to go around it to warp to wherever your destination is)

But I maintain it would have two main advantages - mainly it would increase distances (and make other parts of Empire more exotic). And I've discussed it at length. Secondary benefit is it would create a much needed PVP zone around gates. This is something that is currently lacking, because there just isn't much reason to go anywhere other than stations (large docking rings, docking games) or gates, where WTZ reduces player to player exposure to just 'outbound alignment time'.


How? AP times would remain the same, further increasing the incentive to haul things AFK. Separating the HS factions by LS would only serve to concentrate the players in whichever area has a higher starting population (vicious circle of cheaper raw materials because of higher supply resulting in more demand resulting in more supply being routed there. Same reason Caldari space currently has the highest population).

It would simply create a free bubble camp at every gate for LS and Null.

Quote:
would create a much needed PVP zone around gates.

That's rich. Create? Most PVP in LS happens on gates, same with most casual PvP in nullsec, and a good chunk of PvP in HS (not sure what the ratio between stations and gates for HS combat locations is).


As far as being worried that 'autopiloting' is getting a buff, there is always the ganking disincentive to 'AP' hauling. At least for now. And I don't think glueing down your F1 key (if it works) would be a widespread practice.

I would argue dividing up the Empires with LS would actually be healthier for the game as cutting off 'autopilot' Industrial/Frieghter access to Jita would drive people to develop the industry of other regions. Prices of some goods will naturally become cheaper in other regions to due local availability of components -and those things (along with standings and LP goodies from other races) would draw people to live there.

Jita wouldn't be the 'best and cheapest in all things' because Jita would no longer have easy accessibility from other regions of Empire.

Factional Warfare might actually be about something other than milking LP in remote backwaters - but controlling the access points and trade lines between Empire regions....
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2012-09-23 16:25:32 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:


Jita wouldn't be the 'best and cheapest in all things' because Jita would no longer have easy accessibility from other regions of Empire.



2 Words:

Jump Freighter.
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#86 - 2012-09-23 19:36:16 UTC
WTZ??? WT15??

What a bunch of babies both sides of this argument are!

Real pod pilots slow boat it from warp gate to warp gate. You know it's true!

I say get rid of warp drives entirely!

Anyone who posts after this and does not completely agree with me is a pony-loving, warp drive-addicted sissy who plays Eve on noob difficulty.

That is all.


It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-09-23 20:22:05 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
Except now, they could easily get rid of Warp to Zero AND the bookmark issue and fix the damn game.
Simply build a warp-bubble into each jumpgate.

As it is, a battleship can travel 20 jumps nearly as fast as a frigate. Thats not broken. Roll

But they don't do it because of carebear tears. The WAH!!! I WANT MY EVE ON EASY MODE players.


better idea then, fix warp speed

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#88 - 2012-09-23 20:26:13 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
So, instead of letting it evolve naturally into a discussion of the merits of WTZ, you've decided to troll it out of existence because you shot your wad already? Sounds like you're simply a narcissistic prick.


And you sound mad for some reason. Lol


Lookee there, a meme that I've never heard before. Roll

I like how "umadbro" is your response to being called out for being a jackass.

Here Pipa - have 1000 likes... Cool

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#89 - 2012-09-23 20:38:16 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Here Pipa - have 1000 likes... Cool


Also mad

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#90 - 2012-09-23 20:41:14 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
....would drive people to develop the industry of other regions. Prices of some goods will naturally become cheaper in other regions to due local availability of components -and those things (along with standings and LP goodies from other races) would draw people to live there.

Jita wouldn't be the 'best and cheapest in all things' because Jita would no longer have easy accessibility from other regions of Empire.


Maybe you need to stop being docked in Jita all day bemoaning prices trying to trade your way to wealth and retirement.

Go for a Sunday drive (it is Sunday where you live yeah?) - go PAST Rens/Amarr/Hek etc. and try booking a build in a station.

While you're there, pop out to a few moons and tell me how many POS's have build arrays etc....

On your journey, go through Rens and check the prices. See how they are nearly the same as Jita? I betcha MOST of that came from those "unused regions" you speak of. The price parity is because it IS produced "out there" - by the trillions of iskies.

You're asking to fix a problem that does not exist.

...oo00oo...

A thought...

You want WT15 and complain about hub pricing bla bla. Tell me, did you lose a freighter in a gank?

With WT15 you can hide your AP gig among the school of fish and get through more often.

I wonder.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-09-23 21:23:58 UTC
Ideas:

1. Allow no BM within 20 km of Jump Gates
2. Disable Warp Disruption within 20 km of jump gates, allow Webs (In Hi, Low sec)
3. Allow Microwarp drives and afterburners (In Hi, Low sec)
4. Disable cloaks within 20 km of jump gates (In Hi, Low sec)
5. No anchoring, jettisoning of any items within 20 km of Jump gates (In Hi, Low sec)

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Pipa Porto
#92 - 2012-09-23 21:42:59 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
As far as being worried that 'autopiloting' is getting a buff, there is always the ganking disincentive to 'AP' hauling. At least for now. And I don't think glueing down your F1 key (if it works) would be a widespread practice.

I would argue dividing up the Empires with LS would actually be healthier for the game as cutting off 'autopilot' Industrial/Frieghter access to Jita would drive people to develop the industry of other regions. Prices of some goods will naturally become cheaper in other regions to due local availability of components -and those things (along with standings and LP goodies from other races) would draw people to live there.

Jita wouldn't be the 'best and cheapest in all things' because Jita would no longer have easy accessibility from other regions of Empire.

Factional Warfare might actually be about something other than milking LP in remote backwaters - but controlling the access points and trade lines between Empire regions....


The value of being ATK for Freighter runs is the time saved, not the reduced risk of Suicide Gank. Your suggestion would remove that value, by which I mean, flying your ship ATK would not be any faster than Autopiloting, which is a relative buff to Autopiloting.

Dividing Empire regions up with LS would simply concentrate people further in Caldari space. It might make a few JF pilots fairly wealthy. Doing that while removing the ability to ever WTZ on a gate would simply screw over non-caldari space. The only reason other hubs exist is that industrial people have spread out. The only reason industrial people do that is because the cost of doing so is low. Put un-JFable LS in between Jita and your POS and you've just massively increased your manufacturing cost, so you move to Caldari space and maybe ship your goods to other pockets of HS (it's easier to move finished goods to other areas than raw materials).

Jita's pull isn't that it's got the lowest prices (it often isn't) its that it has everything (one stop shopping) and enough volume to swallow just about any amount of product (one stop selling). Moon Goo producers go to Jita because they can sell all their goo in one place and can expect it to sell fast. Purchasers will also go to Jita because that's where the sellers go. It's a self-reinforcing cycle that's been iterated in Jita so many times that not much could disrupt it.

Except that being an Outlaw is a significant disadvantage in FW, so FW wouldn't control any such access.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Reiisha
#93 - 2012-09-24 01:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Reiisha
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Except now, they could easily get rid of Warp to Zero AND the bookmark issue and fix the damn game.
Simply build a warp-bubble into each jumpgate.

As it is, a battleship can travel 20 jumps nearly as fast as a frigate. Thats not broken. Roll

But they don't do it because of carebear tears. The WAH!!! I WANT MY EVE ON EASY MODE players.


Sure, so long as they make it so titan bridges/jump bridges drop their payloads 100km from the target, in randomised locations.


That's how stargates used to work. Not gate to gate, but to a 'random' point in the target system (fixed point with ~50km variance).

Pipa Porto wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
As far as being worried that 'autopiloting' is getting a buff, there is always the ganking disincentive to 'AP' hauling. At least for now. And I don't think glueing down your F1 key (if it works) would be a widespread practice.

I would argue dividing up the Empires with LS would actually be healthier for the game as cutting off 'autopilot' Industrial/Frieghter access to Jita would drive people to develop the industry of other regions. Prices of some goods will naturally become cheaper in other regions to due local availability of components -and those things (along with standings and LP goodies from other races) would draw people to live there.

Jita wouldn't be the 'best and cheapest in all things' because Jita would no longer have easy accessibility from other regions of Empire.

Factional Warfare might actually be about something other than milking LP in remote backwaters - but controlling the access points and trade lines between Empire regions....


The value of being ATK for Freighter runs is the time saved, not the reduced risk of Suicide Gank. Your suggestion would remove that value, by which I mean, flying your ship ATK would not be any faster than Autopiloting, which is a relative buff to Autopiloting.

Dividing Empire regions up with LS would simply concentrate people further in Caldari space. It might make a few JF pilots fairly wealthy. Doing that while removing the ability to ever WTZ on a gate would simply screw over non-caldari space. The only reason other hubs exist is that industrial people have spread out. The only reason industrial people do that is because the cost of doing so is low. Put un-JFable LS in between Jita and your POS and you've just massively increased your manufacturing cost, so you move to Caldari space and maybe ship your goods to other pockets of HS (it's easier to move finished goods to other areas than raw materials).

Jita's pull isn't that it's got the lowest prices (it often isn't) its that it has everything (one stop shopping) and enough volume to swallow just about any amount of product (one stop selling). Moon Goo producers go to Jita because they can sell all their goo in one place and can expect it to sell fast. Purchasers will also go to Jita because that's where the sellers go. It's a self-reinforcing cycle that's been iterated in Jita so many times that not much could disrupt it.

Except that being an Outlaw is a significant disadvantage in FW, so FW wouldn't control any such access.


I really miss Yulai...

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...