Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Even good players get in a state of panic the first few seconds. Those who don't either lie or have way too much money and give no fucks anyways.

I've been hotdropped plenty of times, and I've gotten out alive plenty of times, because what I do after that initial state of panic has been correct. That's where good players differ from bad players, good players behave correctly once the panic subsides, bad players stay within that bubble of panic. 20km isn't going to change anything, 50km is still not going to save the more expensive ships, and 100km is still doable but it's just as awful as the mining barge changes and the upcoming crimewatch changes. CCP might as well just come out and say that aggression against other players ist verboten.


Tier 3s don't take that long to warp, you don't use capitals against anything other than other capitals (or huge bs fleets, but then you're not looking to kill everyone, just hold the field/win that skirmish anyways). And, there's this concept of "bringing dictors along for the ride".


Now you're just getting ridiculous. "You can only counterhotdrop if you're in goons"?

There are tons of hotdrops and counterhotdrops going on as it is, where we're not involved because, and this'll probably be a shocker to you, we're busy elsewhere. And we don't give a flying **** about some random capitals in lowsec. Get over yourselves.


It's on topic, because it's a gradual removal of things pubbies find dangerous. In this case, "hotdrops are too easy and riskless :( :( :(".


Except when you do get hotdropped, they'll get in, tackle you and cynojam your immediate area and stop you from counterhotdrop them, which means it's even easier and less risk than before. Congratulations.

PL is a "big alliance", now?


And what, pray tell, are they hotdropping?


You don't get to talk "about the cynojammer module" without discussing the ramifications it would have. And it's pretty obvious, by the way you said "well, increase it gradually until it works, then" that your only angle here is to remove hotdrops in the same fashion CCP removed mining barge ganking in hisec, and will try to remove normal for-profit ganking as well, while being able to say "we haven't removed the ability to gank people!".


If you "plan to counterhotdrop them", then your cynojammer module would stop your own cyno, as well as their cyno. If it doesn't, then they could still cyno on top of you.

As I said, you've just made hotdrops even safer. vOv

So you're saying that PL never hotdrops anyone on their own? Interesting.

Also no, you don't get to tell me what I can and can't discuss here.


And your cynojammer won't make any impact on this whatsoever, unless you make changes just like CCP have done with mining barges and, now, ganking.


Keep missing the point. I said "removed mining barge ganking", I did not say "made impossible". Technically you can still gank them, but it would be purely for griefing and tears, which means that effectively speaking mining barge ganking has been removed.


How about you learn from those who successfully counter hotdrops in the myriad of ways hotdrops are countered in today, instead of complaining about how you "must join goons to counter a hotdrop"?

And then come up with something which'd make hotdropping safer, to boot.


You might not, but the hotdroppers would, and they'd bring the jammers.

Congratulations, you've just made hotdropping safer.

Unless you're extremely on the ball, you won't be lighting the cyno in time. As for burning out of jamming range, that'll be easy when you're either a supercap, a cap, or a subcap which is being hounded by other ships who can web them, also with jammers. Good luck with that.

Congratulations, you just made hotdrops safer.


Rooks and Kings would like a word with you about how to do hotdrop escalations/counterdrops.


:sigh:

Your understanding is sadly flawed. I said "in the same fashion CCP removed mining barge ganking in hisec". They haven't made it impossible, but for all intents and purposes (apart from someone who still do it for the tears), mining barge ganking has been removed.

The only way they can "make isk in some way" by ganking mining barges, is if they're faction fit. That doesn't happen often.


You made a bad point.

[tell] us how they'd gank people and turn that into a profit by making the ships/modules, instead of just making the ships/modules and selling it in jita and not incur the costs of throwing away their own ships to begin with.


1) It doesn't take 10 seconds.
2) A properly setup hurricane can lock and shoot a cynoship in far, far less than your "10 seconds".


Congratulations on completely and utterly not reading how I detailed you making hotdropping safer.


No ****, sherlock. That's because "hotdropping isn't safe", to the contrary of what you'd like us to believe to push through this "cynojammer" idea of yours which, if implemented, would make hotdrops safer. Pretending it wouldn't isn't going to make it any less so.


I said there are a myriad of counters. There are counters which isn't just "BRING MORE PEOPLE/BIGGER SHIPS", saying there aren't doesn't make them disappear. And at this point I don't care that you don't seem to be able to grasp this.

The problem with your hypothesis is that the ganker would have to jack the price up a fair bit to make it worth it to gank a miner and selling it to that one specific miner afterwards, and this flies up against the fact that if the miner has to spend, say, more than 5 or 10m to buy a new barge, he might as well spend that hour going to/from jita or some other major hub nearby.

And the ganker would be better served just selling his ship in jita and get his money back quicker so he can buy more raw materials and make new barges quicker.


So you're going to just completely ignore a direct and well-used counter to hotdrops, just so you can harp on about a module which would make a properly executed hotdrop safer by enabling them to block out reinforcements.

Oh well, good thing you're not in charge of module design.


There are more options than that available to you. You being unable to see them doesn't mean it's time to add a new module which would make hotdrops safer.

Do the Math. Its not a "hypothesis". You can also contact the gankers and ask them. Dont complain on things you dont understand. I dont want to repeat myself each time because you are calling "hypothesis" and "theories" and such things.. simply do the Math.
His Ship costs 5 million. A Strip Miner costs 4 million in Jita .. and (no wonder) 5 Million in that System. A retriever has 2 of them + the other Stuff fitted. Dont tell me this is without profit (not calculated the Profit in selling Mining Barges in the same System). ..... just do the Math.

And.. why do you thing the Miner would need only 10 Minutes to fly to jita, buy everything, fit his Ship and come back again? (Rethoric question)



Then tell me. Dont say "there are more" and "you cant see them" ... just describe it.

It's been 9 pages of the same arguments. The pro cyno jammer module players (as a ship to ship jamming module) have the best aurgument. It is overpowered to have a waste frigate to light a cyno to drop a fleet. This leads to dull fights and blobs. So its simple for the hot droppers if they wish to hot drop. Bring more ships in your cyno lighting gang, the module can be countered by brining more than one cyno, ecm, blow up the cyno jamming ship, etc.

The module seems to add more of a risk dynamic to cyno lighting. It's more balanced than running around dropping your faction battleships anywhere you seem fit to do so. I like it.

Other considerations to "BALANCE" it so both parties are happy is to simply not let frigates and destroyers light jump bridge capable cynos. And make the cyno jammer ship be a battleship sized module. Reducing mobility to gain an advantage on cyno ships.

This is a seperate issue Linked to many others. Even if Local was removed that would make hot dropping an even more surpring mechanic. Therefore then it would require a valid counter. Your scout would roll around in a cloaked frigate/covops/recon and you have an undetectable cyno alt able to drop a fleet on an unsuspecting roam. With ability to stop it, the previous aurgument of "**** happens" works both ways, get cynojammed and you lose your scout, "**** happens". Your aurgument validated the need for a module even more if local was fixed.