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Ship Bumping? Still needed?
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Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#1 - 2012-09-20 20:50:50 UTC
This (somewhat ridiculous) mini-threadnought eventually raised a good question (somewhere around page 8 if you're interested)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155027&find=unread

And that is, is there a valid reason to have ship bumping in the game?

My concern/issue/problem is that it is an absolutely riskless activity with no consequences and no correspondingly cheap counter. Sure, I can shoot the guy, but in hi-sec that incurs a lost ship and a security status penalty (not to mention, if I can kill him inside 20 seconds I almost certainly lost a lot more valuable ship than he had). As a result, it strikes me as very nearly the definition of griefing. Leaving aside the issue of ganking, it's just someone causing problems for which there's no rational, reasonable solution.


There was a time when titan bumping was the only form of tackling with subcaps. With heavy interdictors, that's not the case any more.

So does this relic have a place any longer?
Christy D Floyd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-09-20 20:58:38 UTC
This is not going to end well trust me......

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#3 - 2012-09-20 21:02:16 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
This is not going to end well trust me......


Am I just going to get flamed to hell and back?
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-09-20 21:18:47 UTC
Yes, dont afk mine or just wardec.
Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-09-20 21:20:00 UTC
Pretty much anything that interferes with Hi-sec shenanigans of any sort, expect to be flamed out from the sun to Hell and back to the heart of the galaxy.

Even if what you're asking is a valid question.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#6 - 2012-09-20 21:28:38 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Yes, dont afk mine or just wardec.


I appreciate the snark... really, I do... But not mining seems like a suboptimal solution given the way the game is constructed. Wardeccing doesn't work if they're just a single person in an NPC corp.

Rezig wrote:

Even if what you're asking is a valid question.


I'll take cold comfort in the implication that it's a valid question ;)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-09-20 22:48:58 UTC
I can think of more that a few instances where bumping is extremely useful that doesn't involve afk miners. Simply put, bumping is a valid tactic.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#8 - 2012-09-20 22:51:06 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I can think of more that a few instances where bumping is extremely useful that doesn't involve afk miners. Simply put, bumping is a valid tactic.


Are these null-sec uses where it's far from a riskless activity or are they hi-sec uses where the risk is damn near zero?
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#9 - 2012-09-20 22:57:26 UTC
Where did James 315 bump you? Lol

That much aside...yes. It is a valid tactic. Until such a day as ships can collide with one another for damage...totally valid. What if I see a freighter in hi-sec being a buffoon and carrying 10b isk in goodies, why should he have 0 risk for being a moron and me not be able to bump him away from the gates until a gank-squad arrives?

There are many uses beyond just this, and not simply limited to hi-sec.

Think you're just a victim of someone's bumpage and lashing out because you lost something. So...I go back to the original question.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-09-20 23:09:34 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I can think of more that a few instances where bumping is extremely useful that doesn't involve afk miners. Simply put, bumping is a valid tactic.


Are these null-sec uses where it's far from a riskless activity or are they hi-sec uses where the risk is damn near zero?


Does it matter? Bumping is a valid tactic in a lot of circumstances.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#11 - 2012-09-20 23:13:33 UTC
I use it in lowsec a fair amount - tackle and double web a ship, and then try to bump it so it can't reapproach gate.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#12 - 2012-09-20 23:19:25 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Where did James 315 bump you? Lol

That much aside...yes. It is a valid tactic. Until such a day as ships can collide with one another for damage...totally valid. What if I see a freighter in hi-sec being a buffoon and carrying 10b isk in goodies, why should he have 0 risk for being a moron and me not be able to bump him away from the gates until a gank-squad arrives?

There are many uses beyond just this, and not simply limited to hi-sec.

Think you're just a victim of someone's bumpage and lashing out because you lost something. So...I go back to the original question.


You'll not find a kill-mail of me anywhere in EVE that resulted from bumping. Never owned a freighter. Have very little interest in that particularly boring past time. My "problem" with the bumping is that it's completely riskless. I don't mind there being a mechanic that allows you to hold a freighter down. I just think you shouldn't be able to do it with impunity? I'd turn your question around though. If I see some ass-hat bouncing people near a gate just for fun, why shouldn't I be able to do something about it?

My choices are
1) War dec him. Hope he comes back after 24 hours in the same corp.
2) Employ the bounty system which no one actually uses
3) Gather five of my friends and alpha him, thereby losing 5 times his ship's value in our own ships while also taking a security status hit.

none of those solutions is a good solution for anyone
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#13 - 2012-09-20 23:21:11 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I can think of more that a few instances where bumping is extremely useful that doesn't involve afk miners. Simply put, bumping is a valid tactic.


Are these null-sec uses where it's far from a riskless activity or are they hi-sec uses where the risk is damn near zero?


Does it matter? Bumping is a valid tactic in a lot of circumstances.


riskless tactics are not a good thing for EVE (at least IMO). That goes for hi-sec carebears like myself as well. NOTHING we do should be riskless (I LIKED Hulkageddon... mostly because I tanked my Hulk ;)
AFKish
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-09-20 23:32:35 UTC
I've always been a big fan of bumping, I like to think I am quiet good at it. I believe its still need as a game mechanic even if its not practical on stations like it used to be. A prime example for me of why bumping is still needed came a few months ago in the form of a maelstrom. This maelstrom was travelling through empire no "Fs" given full rack of stabs. I must have chased him 6 jumps before i finally managed to get a good line and hit him. without that single bump my gang wold never have managed to catch up and apply more pts and there never would have been a kill.

So yes I think bumping is needed like a lot of mechanics it will get abused to great effect such as mas tempests bumping titans out of shields or bumping orcas for an hr to get a ransom. In a game where scams are legit I see no reason why bumping should be outlawed.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#15 - 2012-09-20 23:37:08 UTC
AFKish wrote:
I've always been a big fan of bumping, I like to think I am quiet good at it. I believe its still need as a game mechanic even if its not practical on stations like it used to be. A prime example for me of why bumping is still needed came a few months ago in the form of a maelstrom. This maelstrom was travelling through empire no "Fs" given full rack of stabs. I must have chased him 6 jumps before i finally managed to get a good line and hit him. without that single bump my gang wold never have managed to catch up and apply more pts and there never would have been a kill.

So yes I think bumping is needed like a lot of mechanics it will get abused to great effect such as mas tempests bumping titans out of shields or bumping orcas for an hr to get a ransom. In a game where scams are legit I see no reason why bumping should be outlawed.


I'm assuming in your example the target was already a war target of some flavor. So what you were doing was not "riskless" because he could have turned around and shot you (or called for help to shoot you or whatever). A random person just being a jerk doesn't have that particular sword of Damocles hanging over their head.
AFKish
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-09-20 23:50:31 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:

I'm assuming in your example the target was already a war target of some flavor. So what you were doing was not "riskless" because he could have turned around and shot you (or called for help to shoot you or whatever). A random person just being a jerk doesn't have that particular sword of Damocles hanging over their head.


Ok my next example is using a neutral alt to bump a WT off station as he undocks or when he agresses. This is riskless yet I think its fair. Another example is bumping a miner thats dieing to rats, this is also riskless and has the byproduct of being funny as hell.

As to what goons are doing bumping a freighter to hault I believe it serves a duel perpose neither of which I am against. true it stops them from warping but this happens all over eve every day whether its a gank or not, and second bumping can be used to slow a targets movement so you can apply more dps or a bigger volley. Are you proposing that we do away with ship collision all together and make ships just fly through eachother because that is a total immersion buzzkill for me.


ps. did goons gank you or somthing to make you make this post?
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#17 - 2012-09-20 23:55:30 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I can think of more that a few instances where bumping is extremely useful that doesn't involve afk miners. Simply put, bumping is a valid tactic.


Are these null-sec uses where it's far from a riskless activity or are they hi-sec uses where the risk is damn near zero?



Bumping is needed. For knocking people off undock or from jump range on gates + many more uses.

I have had bumping used against me very effectively in the past. It is a useful pvp tactic and should stay.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#18 - 2012-09-21 05:36:12 UTC
Bumping is a pilot skill. It's as important to a gate camp as any other skill a pilot has.
Martin0
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#19 - 2012-09-21 06:15:09 UTC
You can remove bumping IF:
-Repping people gives aggro so you can't dock/jump as soon as someone shoots your neutral alt
-Aggression timer extended to 2 minutes of more
-You can't jump anymore trough WH while aggressed
Echo Belly
#20 - 2012-09-21 08:54:41 UTC
Usefulness and pilot skill matters aside, it still feels awefully goofy to witness ship bumping as it turns supposedly epic space battles into bumper cars or pogostick races... sure it's "fun" but personally i don't think it would hurt to replace it by something less *boing*boing* cartooney x:
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