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Missions & Complexes

 
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NPC combat AI to be upgraded. Your thoughts?

First post
Author
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#101 - 2012-09-27 11:31:15 UTC
Oh just forget it.

You quote a part of my post that explicitly talks about FUN, and you talk about risk/reward.

And fwiw, this AI change does not increase the risk of your dear L4s at all.

RIsk in WH PVE comes from the higher DPS of rats, and mostly from other players, and from the fact that might not get any rewards at all (yes, sometimes a Noctis dies) and that is the basis of higher rewards.

Dev Blog wrote:
Why are we doing this:

There are plenty of reasons for doing this. Trying to bring everything up to date, to stop maintaining old code, to give us new options for what we can do in missions, to try and close some exploits, to attempt to make the PvE more engaging, and more.


.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#102 - 2012-09-27 20:51:14 UTC
Roime wrote:
Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both.


A complete lie.
LiquidDreams
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-09-27 21:46:28 UTC
im thinking

new eve players will get even more problems

and goodbye drones ! ehhw !
Hash Arzi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2012-09-28 02:14:41 UTC
This change would simply kill drone boats.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-09-28 03:34:20 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Roime wrote:
Sentries have always been preferred choice for PVE, but ideally you would have both.


A complete lie.

This comment brings to question your expertise on the matter
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#106 - 2012-09-28 08:15:01 UTC
Hash Arzi wrote:
This change would simply kill drone boats.


Nope, it doesn't affect the tank of drone boats at all.

.

Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-09-28 09:51:44 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Tarikla wrote:
RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually.



All new NPCs I create will have player like fits and hopefully one day I will have time to go over the older NPCs.. this is a lot of work though ;)


You have the coolest job ever, I am jealous.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#108 - 2012-09-28 11:07:01 UTC
While this all sounds so well and good, I wonder what CCP is going to do to the petitions where someone has lost their drones and is scrambled in a mission by an NPC or two (which can't possibly kill them), and are stuck there until the next dt.

Here's a suggestion CCP, you guys don't live in highsec, you don't run missions, neither does the CSM. Every "change" to missions has nerfed them and infuriated mission runners. Give it up, now.

The average mission runner doesn't read these forums, nor does he really want to be 'challenged'. Missions (and other forms of PvE are mostly 'the grind' necessary to fund PvP activities, so why on earth are you thinking of making 'the grind' harder?

You want to make PvE more like PvP? Guess what, not many people jump into a battleship and try to solo 30 to 50 other people in PvP. So what are missions going to become? Jump into a battleship and try to solo 2 to 5 NPC's (hopefully they are faction fit so they have a chance of dropping something)? And use this to fund PvP? Are we going to have to fit a point to hold the NPC's? Will we have to probe them down if they jump away? Or will this end up really like PvP where I have to bring a bigger blob to counteract the NPC blob. - You, really sounds like fun to me.....
Adigard
RubberDuckies
#109 - 2012-09-28 11:17:31 UTC
Veryez wrote:
You want to make PvE more like PvP? Guess what, not many people jump into a battleship and try to solo 30 to 50 other people in PvP. So what are missions going to become? Jump into a battleship and try to solo 2 to 5 NPC's (hopefully they are faction fit so they have a chance of dropping something)? And use this to fund PvP? Are we going to have to fit a point to hold the NPC's? Will we have to probe them down if they jump away? Or will this end up really like PvP where I have to bring a bigger blob to counteract the NPC blob. - You, really sounds like fun to me.....


Enough people in this game either fund everything via PLEX purchase, or living off the null faucet. There is a certain drive to see that exact set of events happen.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#110 - 2012-09-30 03:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Veryez wrote:

Here's a suggestion CCP, you guys don't live in highsec, you don't run missions, neither does the CSM. .


None of the CSM's representing HI SEC is HI SEC's fault for voter apathy for the most part. If we as the majoriy of EVE don't vote it is our fault. I'd perfer the CSM being more representative with electoral districts but any system that tried to base its its reps from where they 'appear' to be from probably would be highly susceptable to gaming.

I don't think none of the CCP DEVs lives in HI SEC but it does often appear to be true and I believe a majority are NULL or WH residents . I am positive they do care about HI SEC though.
I'm sure thegame designers such as CCP Afinity do read these posts here. That said I know it is tuff to not be overly negitive ( I'm often guilty of being too negitive though its sort of the nature of forum posters to be pessimeists IMHO ) but stating that improved AIs as being a negitive just is silly...

I believe making mission AI's in the long run will improve the game and hope Incursion AI's ( whom I fight daily) in the future too become smarter even though in the long run my ISK generation would be reduced; why? because I enjoy the challenge of a goodfight in PvE even though they are rare & usually are because of DC's of logi
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#111 - 2012-09-30 07:13:34 UTC
Veryez wrote:
While this all sounds so well and good, I wonder what CCP is going to do to the petitions where someone has lost their drones and is scrambled in a mission by an NPC or two (which can't possibly kill them), and are stuck there until the next dt.

Here's a suggestion CCP, you guys don't live in highsec, you don't run missions, neither does the CSM. Every "change" to missions has nerfed them and infuriated mission runners. Give it up, now.

The average mission runner doesn't read these forums, nor does he really want to be 'challenged'. Missions (and other forms of PvE are mostly 'the grind' necessary to fund PvP activities, so why on earth are you thinking of making 'the grind' harder?

You want to make PvE more like PvP? Guess what, not many people jump into a battleship and try to solo 30 to 50 other people in PvP. So what are missions going to become? Jump into a battleship and try to solo 2 to 5 NPC's (hopefully they are faction fit so they have a chance of dropping something)? And use this to fund PvP? Are we going to have to fit a point to hold the NPC's? Will we have to probe them down if they jump away? Or will this end up really like PvP where I have to bring a bigger blob to counteract the NPC blob. - You, really sounds like fun to me.....


Most people move out of hisec because it is mindnumbingly boring and offers no challenge.

Yes, PVE where the rats are harder and with better AI is in fact more fun. And I play games for fun, not to get piles of virtual currency.



.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#112 - 2012-09-30 07:16:12 UTC
I've actually like two DN posts already :D

In this case the man knows what he's talking about. Better AI, harder sites, = more fun. Not forgetting teamwork, which is what MMOs are all about.

.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#113 - 2012-10-01 19:47:54 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1990692#post1990692

Null sec explorers (especially those with experience with the MAZE), does this strike anyone else as odd?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#114 - 2012-10-01 19:54:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1990692#post1990692

Null sec explorers (especially those with experience with the MAZE), does this strike anyone else as odd?


Under the old conditions, what the dev did is impossible.

Under the new conditions, who knows?

But according to the other posts by the dev in the same thread, it is irrelevant, since null sec will be taken care of by nerfing the plex damage or some other method. But you already know that, because you have posted in that thread.

What this likely will end up being is a buff to null sec plex income, while at the same time satisfying the requirements of the null sec zealots to hugely damage high sec.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-10-02 11:32:39 UTC
Syn Fatelyng wrote:
Tarikla wrote:
You assume Drones Ship are played in an active fashion ... it's not the case. Drones Ships are AFK machines, anyone who want an active ship will go for a GunBoat, much more efficient in term of damages ...

So RIP Drones Ships .
You assume I don't active play my 960 dps Rattlesnake. Or my 1.2k dps Navy Dominix.

I understand and am aware of AFK drone boats being hit by this. But not all drone boats, and not all drone pilots are afk pilots.



He probably does ..

There is a group mindset held by some people that play eve that believe the following statements are all true facts

1 player AFK droneboats, then all droneboats are flown by AFKer's
1 miner bots, then all miners are RMT botters

The FoTM sheep mentality is so ingrained into thier playstyle that they cannot comprehend individuality.
The hardcore nonthinkers even believe CCP has actively colluded with RMT'ing websites in the past.




All you can do is ignore them as they will never go away, because the universe doesn't prohibit stupid from breeding.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#116 - 2012-10-02 11:56:26 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Veryez wrote:

Here's a suggestion CCP, you guys don't live in highsec, you don't run missions, neither does the CSM. .


None of the CSM's representing HI SEC is HI SEC's fault for voter apathy for the most part. If we as the majoriy of EVE don't vote it is our fault. I'd perfer the CSM being more representative with electoral districts but any system that tried to base its its reps from where they 'appear' to be from probably would be highly susceptableto gaming.

I don't think none of the CCP DEVs lives inHI SEC but itdoes often appear to be true and I believe a majority are NULL or WH residents . I am positive they do careabout HI SEC though I'm sure thegame designers such as CCP Afinity do read these posts here. That said I know it is tuff to notbe overly negitive ( I'm oftenguilty of that too ) but stating that improved AIs as being a negitive just is silly...

I believe making mission AI's in the long run will improve the game and hope Incursion AI's ( whom I fight daily) in the future too become smarter even though in the long run my ISK generation would be reduced; why? because I enjoy the challenge of a goodfight in PvE even though they are rare & usually are because of DC's of logi


Yes I do read the posts :) and lots of us devs do live in HI SEC - but we have to move forward.. we can't just never update the NPCs because people are scared of the new challenge it might present.

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle

Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#117 - 2012-10-02 12:38:54 UTC
I'm really looking forward to the additional challenge of the new AI. It should make PvE more interesting.
PvE should create a fun interaction, not just a boring, same every time isk grind.
Lord Okinaba
Aliastra
#118 - 2012-10-02 12:56:14 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Veryez wrote:

Here's a suggestion CCP, you guys don't live in highsec, you don't run missions, neither does the CSM. .


None of the CSM's representing HI SEC is HI SEC's fault for voter apathy for the most part. If we as the majoriy of EVE don't vote it is our fault. I'd perfer the CSM being more representative with electoral districts but any system that tried to base its its reps from where they 'appear' to be from probably would be highly susceptableto gaming.

I don't think none of the CCP DEVs lives inHI SEC but itdoes often appear to be true and I believe a majority are NULL or WH residents . I am positive they do careabout HI SEC though I'm sure thegame designers such as CCP Afinity do read these posts here. That said I know it is tuff to notbe overly negitive ( I'm oftenguilty of that too ) but stating that improved AIs as being a negitive just is silly...

I believe making mission AI's in the long run will improve the game and hope Incursion AI's ( whom I fight daily) in the future too become smarter even though in the long run my ISK generation would be reduced; why? because I enjoy the challenge of a goodfight in PvE even though they are rare & usually are because of DC's of logi


Yes I do read the posts :) and lots of us devs do live in HI SEC - but we have to move forward.. we can't just never update the NPCs because people are scared of the new challenge it might present.


Well I'm not afraid of new challenges. My concern is that currently, the drone boats only niche is PVE. They are very rarely used in PVP because missiles/guns are far more effective and reliable at applying damage.

If this new AI is too aggressive towards drones then it will only serve to make drone boats even more redundant.

CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#119 - 2012-10-02 12:59:44 UTC
Lord Okinaba wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Veryez wrote:

Here's a suggestion CCP, you guys don't live in highsec, you don't run missions, neither does the CSM. .


None of the CSM's representing HI SEC is HI SEC's fault for voter apathy for the most part. If we as the majoriy of EVE don't vote it is our fault. I'd perfer the CSM being more representative with electoral districts but any system that tried to base its its reps from where they 'appear' to be from probably would be highly susceptableto gaming.

I don't think none of the CCP DEVs lives inHI SEC but itdoes often appear to be true and I believe a majority are NULL or WH residents . I am positive they do careabout HI SEC though I'm sure thegame designers such as CCP Afinity do read these posts here. That said I know it is tuff to notbe overly negitive ( I'm oftenguilty of that too ) but stating that improved AIs as being a negitive just is silly...

I believe making mission AI's in the long run will improve the game and hope Incursion AI's ( whom I fight daily) in the future too become smarter even though in the long run my ISK generation would be reduced; why? because I enjoy the challenge of a goodfight in PvE even though they are rare & usually are because of DC's of logi


Yes I do read the posts :) and lots of us devs do live in HI SEC - but we have to move forward.. we can't just never update the NPCs because people are scared of the new challenge it might present.


Well I'm not afraid of new challenges. My concern is that currently, the drone boats only niche is PVE. They are very rarely used in PVP because missiles/guns are far more effective and reliable at applying damage.

If this new AI is too aggressive towards drones then it will only serve to make drone boats even more redundant.



Team Five 0 are testing the new AI with drone boats in missions - NPCs will target switch according to sig radius so sure, frigs might target your drones.. but so far this has proven to cause minimal drone casualties.

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle

CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#120 - 2012-10-02 13:01:34 UTC
I have also pointed this thread out to CCP Foxfour so hopefully he will post soon :) I don't work on this feature, so only so much I can comment on

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

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Team Astro Sparkle