EVE General Discussion

I don't think those things need to happen. I just think nullsec needs to become more accessible to new players. From browsing the recruitment forum, it seems most Alliances in sov space have SP requirements and don't seem to want new players in their corp. They don't seem to actively recruit new players either. The alliances that recruit new players are the small hi-sec alliances that need large numbers to try to move into nullsec.


No... people in this thread said these things. I wasn't trying to imply it was a CCP statement and I would have no reason to as the discussion was about elitism in the playerbase, not about CCP.

Yeah, okay.

No, there are a ton of changes which needs to happen, some of them are hardcore buffs to nullsec (industry capabilities etc, complete revamp of alliance income etc), combined with moderate nerfs to hisec (i.e. make living in hisec actually cost something where it doesn't today).


Do you know why this is? This is because a lot of people are morons. GSF has made it a policy to make sure newbees are well taken care of, and we've had great success in doing so. However, this can only be taken so far, given the complete lack of things to do in nullsec which aren't either much, much less effort (or is even possible at all) than it is in hisec. Make isk while ratting? Sure it'll be more profitable in nullsec, but it's much less effort to just run a L4 mission in hisec instead. Or, you can just farm FW LP for a few days and make billions. Manufacturing? AAAAHAHAHAHAHAH no. Build that **** in hisec and ship it in, because deklein doesn't have enough manufacturing capacity to build enough t2 ammo to satisfy the appetite of a full maelstrom fleet, let alone make replacement ships for such a fleet. Etc, etc, etc.


Yeah, they're mostly trolling, or dumb. Hisec doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground, but it's setting a way too high a baseline for rewards for way too low effort, and this is actively hindering people into getting incentivized into going into nullsec. Of course, these nerfs can't happen until after nullsec has had a whole swathe of changes including making manufacturing locally in nullsec a no-brainer first, along with other ways of structuring alliance income as a bottoms up (i.e. player activity-based) income instead of today's top down moon-based income. But once that's done, hisec needs to be put to the screw, to add costs where there today hardly are any. This includes such things as increasing sales taxes to the point where they actually matter, and increasing manufacturing costs to the point where they actually affect the outcome of the prices. Today, these costs are negiligible.

And if CCP does make a bottoms up-based income model, nullsec will be incentivized to actually develop the space they take and live in, because this will be important to their bottom line. ****** space = ****** income, well-developed and defended space = non-****** income.

There's FAR too many variables to effectively make this particular claim. Should a null-sec guy who plays 40 hours a month (2 hours per night, 5 nights per week) generally make more or less than the hi-sec industrialist care-bear who plays 80 hours per week? I don't know. How do you factor in the passive income from those alliances with access to Tech (or Neo / Dysp)? Those are all difficult questions to answer. I'd be curious to see a goon / NC. / Solar CFO give a breakdown of Tech income vs. fleet ship reimbursement expenses. Is it net positive or net negative? I just don't know.

As for straight risk in comparing hi-sec vs. null-sec. The price of Morphite vs. the price of Trit STRONGLY indicates that either the market values them with nearly identical risk OR that the people in null-sec are less risk averse (and therefore willing to accept a lower risk adjusted rate of return) then hi-sec people. I'm going to guess that BOTH of those are true. Either way, the people in null-sec appear to be happily mining sufficient Morphite to keep T2 manufacturing going in hi-sec without any kind of appreciable bottleneck... So maybe the market is working fine?

There's much more to think of when it comes to whatever you do in nullsec, than there is in hisec. In nullsec you have to factor in interruptions, losses, PVP ops etc, whereas in hisec you can generally do everything while watching a movie at the same time. I should know, I do a little of both worlds.


Tech income mostly goes to ship replacement, JB fuel, SOV bills, caps fuel, strategic caps caches, strategic logistics costs, investment in strategic reserves, etc etc etc.

Ship replacement for the line person is more or less break even, but that's still a few hours where that person can't make money any other way because he's stuck in a fleet.

All of this is something people who live in hisec doesn't have to even know exists, and let me tell you that is not a negligible advantage.

And? Nothing's stopping them from staying there, so what's the problem?

You have to wonder how pants-on-head-******** someone would have to be to think non-high-sec is that dangerous. What the **** are they doing, jumping into the same camped gate over and over and over?

It's certainly not on the "every other minute" level, even solo. And ffs, if you have a small child and are PVEing in dangerous areas, make a safe before you start and fit a cloak. It's literally a no-brainer.

To answer OP, I'd say 10~12mil per hour is a fair high-sec wage for top-level pure grinding activities.

the POS modules could really use some love... IIRC, you CAN'T build a T2 ship at a POS without wastage... which seems silly to me (and that's not a hi-sec vs. null-sec issue but it affects null-sec more than hi-sec obviously).

I think looking at things like refining (which, IMO, should be able to be 100% at POS's and perhaps limited to 90-95% at stations) and slot cost (both installation and per hour costs) would all be beneficial.

I think players should be heavily incentivized to create POS's even in hi-sec. They create friction points and PvP opportunities (as well as rewards for players that do the interminable standing grind)...

Well if we want to talk about risk/reward perhaps null sec needs some balancing to address the issue of ratting for 100mil/hour in a NAP fest