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in terms of fitted ships lost per day, what do you think hi sec income shoukd cover?
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-09-20 11:32:18 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
You've got it twisted. Hi-Sec rewards are fine as it. Perhaps the rewards in Null need to be increased to reflect the risk?

Well, if they increase such things as sales taxes, up manufacturing costs and other such minor things, then maybe the eve economy can actually take an increase in null rewards. The last few attempts CCP has tried to up the rewards in nullsec has been panic-nerfed within a few months, however.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#62 - 2012-09-20 11:46:11 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Why limit earnings for legit trades when they can not or will not limit earnings for scams?

There is no limit on how much you can earn through legit trades in high-sec either.

Oh god.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#63 - 2012-09-20 11:49:49 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
intervenes with NPC Police if the ripped off players tries to punch the scammer in the face

Punching people in the face is illegal, taking advantage of people's stupidity isn't. Sometimes.

Oh god.
Herr Hammer Draken
#64 - 2012-09-20 11:53:32 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Why limit earnings for legit trades when they can not or will not limit earnings for scams?

There is no limit on how much you can earn through legit trades in high-sec either.


Duh! I suggest you read the title of the thread again and the op's opening statement.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#65 - 2012-09-20 11:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
You're comparing scamming to mission running which is no more relevant than comparing high-sec trading to mission running. They are both ways of making isk in high-sec and they are both irrelevant to the subject of this topic.

Oh god.
Herr Hammer Draken
#66 - 2012-09-20 12:08:38 UTC
Well you can lead a horse to water and thats where it ends.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
TharOkha
0asis Group
#67 - 2012-09-20 12:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Dear nullsec whine-babies.. Tell me in what way is Hisec "safe-haven"? Lol i think that current game mechanics is perfectly fine. You can gank, you can bump, you can wardec. For profit !!!. I agree that HS L4 missions should be slightly nerfed (no loot for example - no reprocesed rare minerals in hisec). But please. If you are not satisfied with your income, dont blame hisec dwellers. If someone is incopetent, its his fault (this also applies for hisec idiots who freight 20+B in freighter). By the way, most richiest players are in jita and believe me, they dond wh0re L4 missions, they are rich because they KNOW how to earn isk. And there is no way that main trade hub will be in low/null in the near future . Wallstreet is also on "hisec" manhattan, not in the middle of the f****g desert somewhere in Mexico.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-09-20 12:15:24 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business.

Yes but the stupid people think it's all about null, they don't care that it's a business. They want to drive away customers until the game completely collapses. Short sighted idiots...
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-09-20 12:17:44 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business.

Yes but the stupid people think it's all about null, they don't care that it's a business. They want to drive away customers until the game completely collapses. Short sighted idiots...

Oh look, another knee-jerk "eve is going to die" post, just because the words "nerf" and "hisec" was uttered in the same sentence.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-09-20 12:23:26 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Doc Severide wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business.

Yes but the stupid people think it's all about null, they don't care that it's a business. They want to drive away customers until the game completely collapses. Short sighted idiots...

Oh look, another knee-jerk "eve is going to die" post, just because the words "nerf" and "hisec" was uttered in the same sentence.

I don't see the word die anywhere. Besides it was a long held opinion, nothing knee jerk about it. No one will ever change anyones behavior in the game, push people and they will quit...
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#71 - 2012-09-20 12:24:16 UTC
i must admit that lo sec rats and null bear tears do taste sweeter for some reason.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#72 - 2012-09-20 12:46:28 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business.

Yes but the stupid people think it's all about null, they don't care that it's a business. They want to drive away customers until the game completely collapses. Short sighted idiots...


lmao are you serious

Null, lowsec and wh players do not want to drive customers away. We want EVE to continue to thrive.

And I have no idea where you get off calling us the short sighted ones, when our complaints are specifically regarding the long-term effects these decisions will have on the game (from catering more towards the mindless drone that is the wow player to the effects on the in game economy from things like mining barge buffs, failscales crimewatch, etc).

If anyone can be classed as "short-sighted idiots" it's the hisec idiots who want immediate gratification and refuse to consider the long term effects their stupid hisec desires will have on gameplay and the playerbase, and refuse to accept that some adjustments (particularly ones that might reduce how fast they fatten their wallets) may be needed for the true betterment of EVE
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-09-20 12:49:26 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
I don't see the word die anywhere. Besides it was a long held opinion, nothing knee jerk about it. No one will ever change anyones behavior in the game, push people and they will quit...

You said "until the game completely collapses". What, pray tell, would you call it if the "game completely collapses"?

What I particularly find hilarious is how people who live in hisec thinks hisec's had any appreciable nerfs the past two years, and that the instant there's any appreciable nerfs to hisec, as opposed to all the nerfs which have hit low/nullsec the past few years, THE GAME WILL DIE AAAAAAA.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#74 - 2012-09-20 12:51:32 UTC
You also seem to have fallen for the old "do whatever you can to get as many new players as quick as possible = good business plan" fallacy. It doesn't mean jack if you can't retain those players and alienate the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process. You may get a nice little bubble at the start, but it quickly bursts.

Just look at how many people initially signed up for swtor and the state of it now.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#75 - 2012-09-20 12:56:42 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
i must admit that lo sec rats and null bear tears do taste sweeter for some reason.

The tears of bitter elitists are even better.

Oh god.
Lancastor Dex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2012-09-20 12:57:43 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Assuming 3 hours of game play in a day, what level of t2 fitted t1 hulls do you feel the following hi sec careers should earn isk wise? (basically wondering how much isk grinding do you think each career path should you have to do to cover in pvp expenses)

Average Level 4 mission runner (this means battleship, average skills)
Low skill retriever miner
High skill hulk/mac miner
Planet interaction specialist only (assume a full 24 hour planet cycle)
T1 manufacturer
T2 manufacturer
Incursion runner

In other word:
Average lvl 4 missioner: 2 t2 fitted cruisers in a day
Low skill miner: 1 t2 fitted frig
High skill miner: 1 t2 fitted cruiser
Pi: 1 t2 fitted frig
T1 manufacture: 1 t2 fitted frig every 2 days
T2 mod: 1 t2 fitted cruiser
Incursion runner: no clue.


As fellow RvB member i would say no Hi-Sec income is good enough:) (especialy when you are into T2 and faction ships like me, and if you lose couple of them/day :)

However if you need fast cash, incursions are definitely best choice. + they have best Fun/ISK/Hour ratio in Hi-Sec
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#77 - 2012-09-20 13:03:14 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
alienate the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process

Please explain how people minding their own business in hi-sec, earning enough isk to get themselves established in the game while they train the skills they need to compete with 'the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process' is somehow alienating 'the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process'.

It seems to me, you have an elitist attitude which demands all new players suffer as much as possible so you can feel good about being an established player while the new players worship you for being so awesome.

Oh god.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-09-20 13:05:19 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
alienate the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process

Please explain how people minding their own business in hi-sec, earning enough isk to get themselves established in the game while they train the skills they need to compete with 'the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process' is somehow alienating 'the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process'.

As if a large majority of you will "compete with the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process". What you're going to end up doing is, fart around in hisec for a few months, get bored, unsubscribe.

Riot Girl wrote:
It seems to me, you have an elitist attitude which demands all new players suffer as much as possible so you can feel good about being an established player while the new players worship you for being so awesome.

Pray tell, what has been proposed to make "all new players suffer as much as possible"?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#79 - 2012-09-20 13:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Lord Zim wrote:
As if a large majority of you will "compete with the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process". What you're going to end up doing is, fart around in hisec for a few months, get bored, unsubscribe.

I guess your crystal ball also showed you that reducing the available income in high-sec will prevent this from happening.

Lord Zim wrote:
Pray tell, what has been proposed to make "all new players suffer as much as possible"?

Posts suggesting that level 4s should give 3m isk/hour and other posts claiming that greedy high-sec carebears are killing EvE will all their money and they must be put in their place... in the poorhouse where they belong.

Of course, you're forgetting the most important thing which is PLEX. Allowing new players an income which allows them to pay for PLEX means CCP makes a profit from PLEX sales. If CCP stays profitable, EvE stays alive. If new players can't PLEX, they are far more likely to quit sooner which means less money for CCP, which in turn is reflected in the EvE universe. New players won't stay in the game, the population of the universe decreases, the universe becomes boring, more people quit.

I don't see how lowering high-sec income would be more beneficial to keeping EvE alive than allowing new players to get a decent head start in the game, or how allowing them to get a head start affects established players in any way other than making them feel bitter about something they can't explain.

Oh god.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-09-20 13:27:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Riot Girl wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
As if a large majority of you will "compete with the core audience who kept your game alive for a decade in the process". What you're going to end up doing is, fart around in hisec for a few months, get bored, unsubscribe.

I guess your crystal ball also showed you that reducing the available income in high-sec will prevent this from happening.

Not outright, no. What needs to happen, however, is to make hisec a safe, but lowish reward area, so new players can bootstrap themselves, and carebears who don't want anything to do with anything non-hisec can grind to their heart's content, until they unsub. Whatever.

It has been shown, repeatedly, that player retention is dependent on people getting into player corps, and the best retention is for people to get out of hisec and into space where they must depend on others to keep safe, maintain infrastructure etc, because this gives them a feeling of ownership, of unpredictability etc.

To do this, nullsec needs severe buffs in industry and convenience options, in addition to a complete revamp of how alliances make money, i.e. less dependency on moons and more dependencies of people actually doing things like PI, mining etc, while hisec needs to be nerfed to both provide incentives to move into low/nullsec.

And this is where hisec people go "THIS WILL KILL THE GAME", to which I say "no, it won't". People had no problems coping with the increased costs of when tech was at 200k/unit, which means that if CCP were to increase the sales tax to 5-10% and increase manufacturing costs, absolutely nothing will happen. None of the doomsaying will happen. Nada. Zip. Zilch. The game will go on, people will adapt, and people will wonder where this doomsday went.

Riot Girl wrote:
Posts suggesting that level 4s should give 3m isk/hour and other posts claiming that greedy high-sec carebears are killing EvE will all their money and they must be put in their place... in the poorhouse where they belong.

Has CCP said this? Has anyone from the playerbase (who weren't trolling you) said this?

No. CCP hasn't said any of these things, what they've talked about has been minor tweaks which, if done properly, will both provide eve with the isk sinks it needs to avoid massive monetary inflation and still allow rewards in nullsec to be buffed rather heavily so as to entice nullsec people from running L4s in hisec and instead rat in nullsec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat