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The real Problem with eve (A manifesto written by kharmha)
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Kharmha
Sttarrlighte Industries
#1 - 2012-09-19 03:16:38 UTC
(note, While this is a parody of all the whining and bitching that low sec and null sec residents do about high sec, It is also a post for the developers to make positive changes to the game)

Various low sec and nul sec residents are vocal about changes needing to be made to high sec. They whine and ***** about "bot miners" in high sec and how no one wants to go into low sec. Wah wah wah. The real problem isint bots in high sec and lack of players in low sec, its quite different then this. To phrase this in a way that james 315 or the mittani would say, let me explain.

Sure, i admit there is some bots in high sec. We all see them, and usualy they get reported swiftly. The real problem lays with the bots that dont get reported, and its quite simply because those bots are not seen by the majority of players. Lately ive been taking alot of trips into low sec and even deep into nul sec. A few times i got cornered and killed, but i didnt whine about it, its part of life in eve. The real problem is that in low and null sec there are tons of botting miners. In my first excursions into low and eventully nul sec ild often hunt rats in belts to suppliment my income with the bounties ild collect. Ocasionaly ild pick up a nice piece of loot from a wreck which would make the trip even more worthwile. Quite often while in the belts ild encounter someone mining. Naturaly, thinking his corp mates and alliance mates where hidden somewhere nearby ild jump from the belt. After a few times of running into miners my curiosity got the better of me and ild stay in the belt for longer and longer. Low and behold i soon realized that these miners where actully bots blisfully mining away and earning far more isk then honest high sec miners. Ive seen this countless times, so those of you who run these low sec mining bots, dont even bother to deny it.

How do they get away with this? Let me explain why they can and do.
First of all, in large areas of low and nul sec, the populations in the systems are in the single digits. Yes, said systems can spike to dozzens when a roam passes by, but most of the time your lucky to see 2 players in most of these systems. So right there you have the first reason for low sec mining, its quite simply even more safer then high sec mining, add in a bot (like alot of low sec miners do) and you can make far more isk then any honest high sec miner will ever make, and in far shorter times spans.
The second reason that it is profitable is simply no one (or very few) will attack a low sec miner, especialy if he is near his alliances space. Why not? If he is alone he is an easy target, right? The mentality of low sec and null sec residents is that you never encounter just 1 person by his or herself. Naturaly if said bot is mining in a belt, most passerby's will assume he has at least a few cloaked buddies watching his back. Safer not to engage, you will find yourself outnumbered suddenly.
Because of this, said bot miner rarely gets reported, because he is a "real person" at the keys. Who after all would bot mine in low sec or nul sec? Quite a few if you take the time to check. Its sad really, honest high sec players who mine are accused of botting and greed, when in reality it happens even more often in low and nul sec. Dont argue its not true you low sec miner, you know your really more of a carebear then the high sec Honest miner just trying to play his game and have fun.
Kharmha
Sttarrlighte Industries
#2 - 2012-09-19 03:17:24 UTC
On a related note, if any place in the eve universe needs change, and change soon to "save the game" as the true carebears (james 315, the mittani, and others who whine on the forums) constantly say, the real changes need to happen in low and null sec.
Change low sec? Change Null? How dare you?
I dare because its true, even thou low and null sec residents argue (and will argue) against what i say here, you all know its all true.

To make low and null sec a better place for all of eve (not just the vocal ones who shout the most), what ccp should do is change the way concord reacts. As it is now, concord protects players against agression (or at least retaliates) in high sec systems. Specificaly in systems of 1.0 security, all the way down to 0.5 security. Also, they respond faster with the higher rating of security systems. Yet this super powerful police force, using technologies, weapons, and ships that mere players can not get, is scared of entering 0.4 systems and lower?
Why should concord not enforce 0.1 all the way up to 1.0 systems? 0.1 to 0.4 systems are considered empire space. What i suggest is concord suddenly regain their power and start to patrol these systems. Of course if you work with how their responce times are, then a 0.4 system should be somewhere like 20-30 seconds, working down to a 0.1 system having a responce of a minute or two. Honestly, if you can kill someone in a 1.0 system before concord reacts, usualy in about 6-10 seconds, why cant you do the same in a 0.1 system with 60-120 seconds?

Of course, i understand war decs, and if two corps/alliances are at war, they naturaly can fight anywhere, so why would the system security matter in those cases?

You mentioned nul sec changes, but didnt yet say anything about them (in james 315's squeeky voice).
Oh but patience young carebear, i just havent gotten to nul sec yet.

For nul sec, of course concord wont respond or patrol 0.0 space, the alliance that has sov over those systems is also claiming responcibility for that, only, they still dont. Sure, players from that alliance roam "their" nul systems, fighting intruders, but thats not real. What should happen is an alliance that forms and takes control of a nul sec area should be the same as any other empire space. First they should be able to hire a private police force to defend their space, with the ability of enforcing or denying those of the alliance's choice.

Second at every point that is a border between 2 alliances, there should be a "border system". This would be a system that neither alliance owns, neither alliances "police forces" would patrol, and open fighting between the 2 alliances could take place. Much as faction fighting in high sec happens, these nul sec "border" systems would be fought over for sov. Beat the other alliance in that border system, capture its points, and eventully you capture the system for your alliance. The systems now bordering this former border system now themselves turn into new border systems, the former alliance loosing control of them.

Lastly ccp could make it where alliances could build real stations with real npc agents in those stations alligned with the alliance faction.
Players allowed into the area could run missions for their faction (the alliance), and the alliance would reap the benifits of players running missions for them. Given enough time, alliances could even change their nul systems into low sec systems (still under their control), and posibly all the way up to 1.0 systems (again, still under their controls). This would give alliances the real chance to become a "real" empire space, thus more incentive for even more players to venture out from the current empire space systems.
Kharmha
Sttarrlighte Industries
#3 - 2012-09-19 03:17:55 UTC
Also this would fix the broken game problems with low and nul sec, as more people would have interest in being in low and nul sec. More players would make low and nul sec their homes, and the player base would be more spread evenly through the eve systems. Naturaly new players would start in high sec systems "the noob systems" as they are still called, but given time they would venture deeper and deeper into lower security systems, eventully winding up in (former) nul and participating in their own ways.

Again, i know i originaly did this to mock alot of the low/nul sec residents who always whine and ***** about high sec, but i also did this to make real positive changes in eve and see eve last another 10 or 'eve'n 20 years to come.

Kharmha
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#4 - 2012-09-19 03:41:39 UTC
The real problem with eve is a lack of proper grammar. It's rarer than tech moons.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-09-19 03:42:51 UTC
Mods please change the title to "Strawman: An Act in 3 Posts"

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#6 - 2012-09-19 03:44:16 UTC
Also, making low into really crappy high sec isn't going to help.

At all.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-09-19 04:57:00 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/zduNY.png?1

the forge alone has more bots then all of nullsec combined

hth
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-09-19 05:40:44 UTC
What the hell is this?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-09-19 06:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
my guess is this guy read James315's manifesto and figured he would make a counter-manifesto that would claim the exact opposite of everything James315 said and concluded with advocating actions the exact opposite of James'. Thus, if CCP ever chooses to acknowledge James' manifesto in any way, one of the dumber CCP employees can go "hold on, there's this other essay saying the exact opposite", creating a false dialetic despite one essay being well reasoned and researched and the other being a barely coherent mess.

Like when creationists want to debate scientists.
Kharmha
Sttarrlighte Industries
#10 - 2012-09-19 17:12:50 UTC
Its funny how everyone that replied is a low sec resident, is opposed to my post, yet cant come up with any logical arguments against my post. Perhaps you see and secretly admit im right?

Also seems no one read the very first line of my post?
Oh well, some low/null sec residents (not all mind you), are not that smart (even with implants).
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-09-19 17:25:45 UTC
We stopped listening to high sec dwellers talking about low/null a long time ago.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-09-19 19:19:33 UTC
Kharmha wrote:
Its funny how everyone that replied is a low sec resident, is opposed to my post, yet cant come up with any logical arguments against my post.

Your argument isn't based on any sort of logic and is easily brushed away by posting even cursory facts about the subjects you're talking about (like botting). Debating your claims would be acknowledging that they're worthy of some sort of debate, which they're not.

http://i.imgur.com/zduNY.png?1

Quote:
Like when creationists want to debate scientists.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-09-20 09:39:30 UTC
Kharmha wrote:
Its funny how everyone that replied is a low sec resident, is opposed to my post, yet cant come up with any logical arguments against my post. Perhaps you see and secretly admit im right?

You've posted no proof, only vague conjecture.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-10-05 07:09:47 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Kharmha wrote:
Its funny how everyone that replied is a low sec resident, is opposed to my post, yet cant come up with any logical arguments against my post. Perhaps you see and secretly admit im right?

You've posted no proof, only vague conjecture.


This honestly.

Anybody can write fiction, even good fiction (yours wasn't...)

Proof of a few excursions into Low and Null is hardly statistically significant when you consider that Null-sec is larger than Empire (yes I include WH's). Also looking at population density and distibution across all of nullsec, for what you said to be true would mean that 3/4 of everyone who lives fulltime in null needs to have a botting alt.

Is it easier to bot in Null? Yes.

Do people do it? Yes.

Is it as big or rampant of a problem as you suggest based on your 'research'? No.

Good Day

/rant

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Prince Kobol
#15 - 2012-10-05 07:26:43 UTC
I tried to read the OP's post but the wall of text just hurt my eyes so I didn't bother
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-10-05 07:59:31 UTC
Kharmha wrote:
...


This isn't a manifesto, it's an incoherent, badly typed, largely unpunctuated unreadable rant.

3/10 rewrite from scratch please.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-10-05 23:18:01 UTC
Jokes on the OP if they really think any one bots with a single barge in a belt. Also, the best ores are in highsec right now, so botters would make more per hour there and have easier access to refining and markets.

Maybe afk mining (thanks mining barge buffs!) but a barge just mining away in a low/null belt with a non-friendly chilling there could just have easily been bait.

Try bumping it next time.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#18 - 2012-10-22 03:29:53 UTC
Kharmha wrote:
Its funny how everyone that replied is a low sec resident, is opposed to my post, yet cant come up with any logical arguments against my post. Perhaps you see and secretly admit im right?

Also seems no one read the very first line of my post?
Oh well, some low/null sec residents (not all mind you), are not that smart (even with implants).



I live in High sec and I also think your post sucks.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#19 - 2012-10-23 10:57:41 UTC
Don't you dare say a word against bot-miners! As long as enough people keep doing this, I can keep on buying pvp-**** for low money. No need to reduce the offer :)
Steelzen
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-11-16 19:55:51 UTC
Want to really disrupt things?

null sec space

Limit the amount of area an Alliance can claim sov over to a constellation at the most.
Allow corporations (not in alliances) to claim sov over a system.
Allow only corporations / alliances that claim sov of a system to moon mine in their system
(anchoring or other poses still permitted)

(Might have an initial NAP fest, but those tend to not last long.)

Low-sec space

Frankly it still isn't profitable enough to attract more players (risk vs rewards)
Improve rocks found in belts, improve rat bounties, improve mission rewards
(sending a hi-sec mission runner to low-sec to complete a mission for a few hundred thousand isk is not worth it)
Moons for mining, increase the number and rarity found in low-sec and change moon mining to include 0.4 sec systems.
(Prohibit alliances / corporations claiming sov in null sec from moon mining in low-sec)

Hi-sec space

Frankly just leave it alone, some people will never leave it no matter the rewards offered elsewhere.
At the very least ban linking in local let players do it in corp / alliance / group or private chats
(Jita; once a month jettison everyone in station out into space; lock the stations for 24hrs and change system to 0.0, no cloaking and no cynos permitted. Should be fun for all, well ok for most of us anyways)

Hope you found my opinion to at least be somewhat intriguing if not humorous Twisted
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