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HEAVY MISSILES NERFED, switch to assault heavy missiles?
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Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-09-19 05:36:47 UTC
Quote:
I usually run TPs in my mids, so does this mean I have to choose between TPs or TCs? Or am I being a noob and missing something?


I'm guessing you can either fit TE's in the lowslots or TC's in the mids. I'd make a guess and say that a TC in the mids would be the best option, considering how garbage a missile ship's dps will be (you'll desperately need all those BCUs).

Quote:
It most likely will still do the same DPS as it currently does, just at a slightly less range(Until you take into account TEs and TCs). Oh and not to mention the fact that Furies are getting a DPS boost.


Going by the current changes to heavy missiles a 2 BCU drake will do 300ish DPS out to 50km (400 with drones) and will be shut down by tracking disruptors. In other words it's garbage.

I'd go as far as to say that drakes will become obsolete in small gangs if the current nerf goes through. There would be no real reason to fly them since tier 3 battlecruisers would be far superior in the damage at mid range role - due to their higher dps at all ranges, speed and ability to kill things quickly.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-09-19 06:09:15 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

We don't know yet, basically. But my read so far is that TCs are going to be all around better. Not only do they effect everything and not just a specific target for 10 seconds, they can also either increase range or damage application.

This is actually sounding like all kinds of awesome. Rather than cycling painters, which is hellishly boring and micro-managey, you get the same choices you would on a proper gun boat and only have to fiddle with the module when you need another option. Now, if we could just get them to script omnis I'll be ridiculously happy....


Did I read that right?? If TCs DO affect everything, that would be so pants-wreckingly awesome!

Smabs wrote:

I'm guessing you can either fit TE's in the lowslots or TC's in the mids. I'd make a guess and say that a TC in the mids would be the best option, considering how garbage a missile ship's dps will be (you'll desperately need all those BCUs).


Aye, my point exactly. I'm not touching my low slot layout on my HMLs. I hope what Zhilia said comes true. Would make my missile slinging alt real happy.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#23 - 2012-09-19 07:35:05 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Going by the current changes to heavy missiles a 2 BCU drake will do 300ish DPS out to 50km (400 with drones) and will be shut down by tracking disruptors. In other words it's garbage.

Or about as good as a Harb (circa 300 gun DPS @ 53km with Aroura... or 170 gun DPS @ 48km with Radio - and that's with the same 2 Heat Sinks).
Hypercake Mix
#24 - 2012-09-19 07:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Hypercake Mix
Mutant Caldari wrote:
... in a Tengu.

Dat range and double dps bonus sub.

Edit: And no. Why pretend to be a close-range missile boat when I can just fly a superior close-range turret boat. A Heavy Missile garbage-ification nerf stops me from using Heavy Missiles. It does NOT make me start using Heavy Assault Missiles.
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
#25 - 2012-09-19 08:31:42 UTC
I generally do missions and exploration and I find assault missiles have too short range to be useful because it takes longer to get in range, and then the time to get back to the gate etc... so while their dps is higher, overall I think it is less efficient.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-09-19 08:41:20 UTC
Quote:
Or about as good as a Harb (circa 300 gun DPS @ 53km with Aroura... or 170 gun DPS @ 48km with Radio - and that's with the same 2 Heat Sinks).


How many beam harbingers do you see? None? There's a reason for that.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#27 - 2012-09-19 08:43:43 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
this change is stupid and will never ever go live like that.


Yes, utterly ********. I am so ******* angry about this. HMs were fine as they were and the Drake was fine as it was. Neither needed a nerf.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#28 - 2012-09-19 08:46:21 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
I personally won't go HAM if the changes noted in the post happen. Probably give up on anything over Rocket-sized, shift over to Projectile or lazors on my alts instead.


CMs haven't been nerfed, so that's still an option, but there's no denying HMs were still better for Lvl 4s. I think it's probably time to cross-train into Guns and get a Mach.

Gutted about the proposed changes - loved doing Lvl 4s in my Drake. Preferable to my CNR & SNI.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#29 - 2012-09-19 08:54:50 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:

Gutted about the proposed changes - loved doing Lvl 4s in my Drake. Preferable to my CNR & SNI.


So your T1 BC was better than a faction battleship, but it didn't need a nerf?

Ok.



.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#30 - 2012-09-19 08:58:04 UTC
Smabs wrote:
I'd go as far as to say that drakes will become obsolete in small gangs if the current nerf goes through. There would be no real reason to fly them since tier 3 battlecruisers would be far superior in the damage at mid range role - due to their higher dps at all ranges, speed and ability to kill things quickly.


It's not all about PVP. Drakes will be rubbish in PVE as well, which makes Baby Jesus QQ IRL Sad

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#31 - 2012-09-19 09:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: John Ratcliffe
Roime wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:

Gutted about the proposed changes - loved doing Lvl 4s in my Drake. Preferable to my CNR & SNI.


So your T1 BC was better than a faction battleship, but it didn't need a nerf?

Ok.





Not the ship, the missiles. HMs just get rid of Frigates and Cruisers faster. CMs get rid of BS faster. Swings and round abouts, but on balance HMs still faster overall IMHO.

I don't see why that means they needed a nerf, all CCP needed to do was change the NPC ship balance on Lvl 4s if they needed to be. I don't accept they do - happy with them as they were.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#32 - 2012-09-19 09:12:23 UTC
Smabs wrote:

Still, even with the changes it's pretty short range and having 2 TE means you have to sacrifice damage, tank or speed to get it to work.

As opposed to which other ships in EvE? Ohyou.jpg

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Dread Djugashvili
#33 - 2012-09-19 09:48:18 UTC
I'll be ok with this missile changes if I'll hit excellent and wrecking shots with my missiles! Guns were always better than missiles and you want to nerf missiles more?

PS: Time for Blengu? or better WTS my Tengu Sad
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-09-19 10:06:14 UTC
Quote:
As opposed to which other ships in EvE? Ohyou.jpg


You're picking out one thing and then congratulating yourself on being technically correct. Of the tier 2 battlecruisers the drake has the fewest lowslots. 2 of those lowslots really need BCU's, especially if a nerf comes. So you're left with 2 lowslots. If you want to fit 2 TE you're sacrificing tank and further reducing the speed of an already slow ship.

With the Hurricane and harbinger there's no real problem with fitting 2 TE, 2 damage mods, a damage control and either a fitting mod or a nano.

And don't compare them to medium beams or rails. Those weapons see almost zero use in pvp. Bringing HMLs down to medium rail levels won't mean that people will switch to feroxes and brutixes. It'll mean that people will switch to the next best, easiest to train option - which is arty canes (or ac canes solo) and tornados.

I could care less about the nerf, personally, since I can fly most subcaps. But obviously I wouldn't be buying any drakes if the changes are going to be that big. Just pointing out that the scale of the changes will probably see tier 3 bcs completely dominating small gang pvp.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#35 - 2012-09-19 10:30:27 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:

Not the ship, the missiles. HMs just get rid of Frigates and Cruisers faster. CMs get rid of BS faster. Swings and round abouts, but on balance HMs still faster overall IMHO.

I don't see why that means they needed a nerf, all CCP needed to do was change the NPC ship balance on Lvl 4s if they needed to be. I don't accept they do - happy with them as they were.


Ok, so the missiles were better? Sounds pretty logical that they were balanced then, no?

.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#36 - 2012-09-19 10:34:47 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Quote:
As opposed to which other ships in EvE? Ohyou.jpg


With the Hurricane and harbinger there's no real problem with fitting 2 TE, 2 damage mods, a damage control and either a fitting mod or a nano.

Yes? And where is the tank then? Harb has to use lowslots for tracking/dps/tank. Drake has enough mids for prop, tackle and a massive tank, and all lows are free for dps mods etc.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-09-19 10:45:55 UTC
You're kind of right. Although a shield tanked harb/cane will have close to 50k EHP (or 60ish if you have a bigger gang with dedicated tackle and you fit an invuln).

I actually agree with you that the drake is overpowered right now. But the level of the changes is so drastic that it'll bring the drake from slightly OP to useless. You may as well reprocess the other HML ships if the patch goes as well.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#38 - 2012-09-19 11:09:15 UTC
It will be far from useless. You get a little less range, which is well over due, and a little less dps. However, you can fit a targeting computer in the mids, sacrificing some tank for greatly improved damage application. Also keep in mind that the Drake will get a revamp along with every other BC in time, and I think it will all pan out very well.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-09-19 11:14:03 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Quote:
Or about as good as a Harb (circa 300 gun DPS @ 53km with Aroura... or 170 gun DPS @ 48km with Radio - and that's with the same 2 Heat Sinks).


How many beam harbingers do you see? None? There's a reason for that.


Considering that the AC cane is being nerfed, and the armor cane effectively removed, it's not that bad.

I for one like the changes off the bat, I Friggin hate Drakes, I can fly them well but they were to good at to much.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-09-19 11:17:27 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Smabs wrote:
I'd go as far as to say that drakes will become obsolete in small gangs if the current nerf goes through. There would be no real reason to fly them since tier 3 battlecruisers would be far superior in the damage at mid range role - due to their higher dps at all ranges, speed and ability to kill things quickly.


It's not all about PVP. Drakes will be rubbish in PVE as well, which makes Baby Jesus QQ IRL Sad


So Caldari pilots have to train battleships like everyone else to PvE.

Sorry for your loss I guess.