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Stabber: [New Model] New Fitting - how do you see this shaping up?
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Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#1 - 2012-09-18 21:48:03 UTC
Stabber:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 Turrets, 2 Launchers
Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1400(+111)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 285(+54) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5
Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 105
Cargo capacity: 420

New Look: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63391/1/stabber.jpg

How would you fit this ship now to be worthly of this "shiney" new hull?
Alara IonStorm
#2 - 2012-09-18 21:54:52 UTC
I would scroll past it on the market to the new Bellicose that has plenty of speed and weapon Dmg but doesn't have a 5m3 Drone Bay.

Might buy one for a hanger ornament until they make it worth flying.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#3 - 2012-09-18 22:11:13 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I would scroll past it on the market to the new Bellicose that has plenty of speed and weapon Dmg but doesn't have a 5m3 Drone Bay.

Might buy one for a hanger ornament until they make it worth flying.


Harsh... what would you change then to make it "worth flying" - I thought it looked pretty good for a T1 cruiser... perhaps Fozzie needs to hear this suggestion prior to winter.
Alara IonStorm
#4 - 2012-09-18 22:19:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I would scroll past it on the market to the new Bellicose that has plenty of speed and weapon Dmg but doesn't have a 5m3 Drone Bay.

Might buy one for a hanger ornament until they make it worth flying.


Harsh... what would you change then to make it "worth flying" - I thought it looked pretty good for a T1 cruiser... perhaps Fozzie needs to hear this suggestion prior to winter.

+20 Drone Bay would be great. A 5th Turret to go along with it would be even nicer.

It is going to be fighting in falloff and 4 single bonused projectiles is just not enough Dmg. Around 300 DPS not counting what you would lose in falloff with 4X 425mm + 3 Gyro's / Barrage, 2 Rapid Launchers and Single Drone.

At least with 5 Guns and 5 Drones you can pump out something reasonable.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#5 - 2012-09-19 00:38:52 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I would scroll past it on the market to the new Bellicose that has plenty of speed and weapon Dmg but doesn't have a 5m3 Drone Bay.

Might buy one for a hanger ornament until they make it worth flying.


Harsh... what would you change then to make it "worth flying" - I thought it looked pretty good for a T1 cruiser... perhaps Fozzie needs to hear this suggestion prior to winter.

+20 Drone Bay would be great. A 5th Turret to go along with it would be even nicer.

It is going to be fighting in falloff and 4 single bonused projectiles is just not enough Dmg. Around 300 DPS not counting what you would lose in falloff with 4X 425mm + 3 Gyro's / Barrage, 2 Rapid Launchers and Single Drone.

At least with 5 Guns and 5 Drones you can pump out something reasonable.


I could see that - def open to ideas here - I just pumped a Stabber out and looking at the Vagabond - ships I never really did much with beyond SISI...

i would like to see 3x warriors for one option or 3x ECM maybe.

and while the missiles are interesting - not sure how split weapons are supposed to work in EVE - given this never works for ships (unless they are bonused both ways, and know of no ship tthat is so in the game)...

how would you fit the lows and mids - like a vaga basically? or something different? - I thought about shield rigs at first but then though polys, but as you point out then you have no dps while you have some speed and then there is the tracking issues... which dictate the lows to TEs to fit...

I would love to see this hull a dedicated speed attack ship... so it needs a high alpha and good speed, the drones then could drop in favor of that, but it would have to be able to kick out DPS at outside tackle range... and not seeing this atm.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#6 - 2012-09-19 13:44:45 UTC
I know this is blasphemy, but for pve I'd stick a passive shield tank on it and make it into a mini-cane (ala http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/12217-Stabber-Fleet-Issue-500dps-Passive-Tank-for-69m-isk-Great-Lvl-3-PvE.html)
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#7 - 2012-09-19 14:20:40 UTC
I'll probably just fly it like an oversized frigate, I know I'll end up fitting one with dual prop, close tackle, dual 180s and a couple of nos, then try kill battleships close up for grins.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#8 - 2012-09-20 04:14:12 UTC
feihcsiM wrote:
I'll probably just fly it like an oversized frigate, I know I'll end up fitting one with dual prop, close tackle, dual 180s and a couple of nos, then try kill battleships close up for grins.


THIS seems the way to go - it's not looking like a Cruiser imho... more like a new class of "Battle Frigate"... ooohh... new class... this game is getting more like Star Fleet Battles... Fast Battle Frigate, Fast Assault Battle Frigate...
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#9 - 2012-09-20 06:18:58 UTC
The stabber is pretty gimped in terms of dps compared to the Thorax and Omen.

Why does the Omen get 5 turrets with a rof bonus and a 40 m3 dronebay and the thorax with a 5 turret with damage bonus and a 50 m3 drones.

But the Stabber gets 4 turrets with rof bonus, 2 crappy unbonused missiles, and a mere 5 m3 of drone bay.
Misspi en Divalone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-09-20 11:44:07 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Stabber:

How would you fit this ship now to be worthly of this "shiney" new hull?


- kitey shield tanked frig or destroyer murderer
- cheap dual prop armour tank alternative to a fleet stabber
- cheap heavy tackle

I really like the falloff bonus the new stabber gets it's what it needed in order to improve it's kiting capabilities. The extra 4th med slot improves tanking and e-war options depending on armor/shield fit. An armour tanked dual prop version likely makes it better suited to take on the new Caracal/Bellicose compared to Thorax and Omen. The high speed gives it the ability to chase and be used to some extent as a heavy tackler. Not as good as a jag in that kind of thing but then again not as expensive as one either.

If it got the same damage output as a Thorax or Omen or ranged damage projection as a Caracal that would be blatantly unfair to those. Instead you get speed and versatility at the cost of lower (on paper) dps. These hulls all complement each other quite well I feel especially with the new T1 EW and support cruiser changes. None of them truely overpowered, all complementing each other and with (exploitable) weaknesses when compared to the other hulls in it's class.

The 5m3 drone bay might look small but it can be considered a utility "slot" with a web/ecm/repair drone in it and it's a built in weakness to prevent it to easily kill drones, frigates, destroyers and cruisers with a single go to fit I'd say.

It certainly will not be a hangar ornament but a very nice supporting cruiser with a decent but not overpowered kick.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#11 - 2012-09-21 00:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
turret equivalence comparison with cruiser 5 skill :
omen : 5 turrets, 25% rof = 5 + 33% dps = 6,66 turrets
thorax : 5 turrets, 25% bonus = 6,25 turrets
caracal : 5 launchers, 25% rof = 5 + 33% dps = 6,66 launchers
stabber : 4 turrets, 25% rof + 2 launchers = 4 + 33% dps + 2 launchers = 5,33 + 2 = 7,33

It need good skills, but with AC + HAM, it's going to be at least on par with the others I think if we consider drones. It's a mini typhoon, or a destroyer with oversized weapons. Yep, it's speed is better than some destroyers. Infact, I'm pretty sure it will even be able to be faster than AF. And you can also forget the dps and have two utility slots.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-09-21 00:50:13 UTC
I got two words: stop ******* with my stabber!

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Narcotics Dealer
G U N D A M
#13 - 2012-09-21 04:31:12 UTC
it will be a great ship to fly solo thanks to the extra slots and range albeit a challenge, the falloff bonus directly increases its dmg in point range which it badly needed

its advantage isnt its dps ability but rather it can just disengage at will so you can attempt to engage a wider target profile than say a thorax which has to commit or a omen that has range but is too slow navigate the field

the change simply makes it effective to use, before everyone used shield ranged rupture as a mini vaga/cyna but this will full that roll more accurately

To mare
Advanced Technology
#14 - 2012-09-21 13:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: To mare
i think the bellicose will be be better
almost same speed
better dps with alot more drone space
target painter bonus and missile bonus on the same ship its very very good, especially with upcoming missile changes, fury ham with TE and painters= awesome.

the only downside will be the lack of neutraliser but with drones painter and new javelin missile it wont need neuts to swat frigs in caracal fashion


edit stabber really need a full flight light drones or just remove the single drones and give it a 5th turret or a 7,5% rof bonus and remove the launcer hardpoints and 1 high
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#15 - 2012-09-21 13:44:29 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

+20 Drone Bay would be great. A 5th Turret to go along with it would be even nicer.

It is going to be fighting in falloff and 4 single bonused projectiles is just not enough Dmg. Around 300 DPS not counting what you would lose in falloff with 4X 425mm + 3 Gyro's / Barrage, 2 Rapid Launchers and Single Drone.

At least with 5 Guns and 5 Drones you can pump out something reasonable.


Stop trolling with overpowered suggestions. Every thread about the new stabber has seen you post this same garbage. 20m3 and a 5th turret would make the ship way over the top. Last thing we need is more matari overpowered, flavor of 4+ year ships.
Alara IonStorm
#16 - 2012-09-21 14:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:

Stop trolling with overpowered suggestions. Every thread about the new stabber has seen you post this same garbage. 20m3 and a 5th turret would make the ship way over the top. Last thing we need is more matari overpowered, flavor of 4+ year ships.

Yeah completely overpowered just like the Vagabond is Roll. You know except it would have worse fitting, tracking, Dmg, resists, and less slots.

The point of the re-balance is to make poorly used ships good, the Vaga is one of the good HAC's and the Stabber embodying some but not nearly all of that would not be a bad thing at all. Now if only the new Omen was little more Zealotish that would be perfect.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#17 - 2012-09-21 16:20:22 UTC
To mare wrote:
or a 7,5% rof bonus


absolutely not.


If people's issue with the proposed future iteration of the stabber is that the bellicose will be better then the bellicose is the ship that needs to be addressed. All I see here is people posting suggestions which will allow the stabber to fight toe to toe with other ships in it's class while retaining the significant tactical speed advantage it currently has. This is how you make ships overpowered... Something this entire rebalance is against.

If you want to brawl on par with the other attack cruisers, then fly the other attack cruisers. The stabber will be the kiting king with easily the highest level of TQ survivability, you must trade something to gain this innate advantage. +1 turret with + 20m3 drone bay/bandwidth, or a 7.5% rof bonus per level are all laughably over powered suggestions.
Misspi en Divalone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-09-21 19:37:23 UTC
The new Bellicose will indeed be awesome but certainly doesn't outperform the new Stabber.

With a base speed of 285 over 240 the faster and more agile ship will certainly be the Stabber with a kiting fit. The end speed will not even be close. Keep in mind that a Thorax will get a base speed of 235, very very close to the bellicose while at the same time the Thorax is slightly more agile and lighter. I'd prefer to try and kite a blaster Thorax in a kiting Stabber.

With a base speed of 285 the Stabber will also be faster then each and every Destroyer something which cannot be said for the Bellicose. Destroyers will run from a Bellicose but just can't do that against a kiting Stabber. Destroyer meet your new nemesis, it's called Stabber.

Stabber can also armor tank even if only badly, with Bellicose pg you just can't. An Omen will be a very tough ship to kill with a Bellicose. Scorch, drones and tank create a nice kill bubble up to and beyond point range. Armor tanked Stabber up close might just have a chance with 4 med slots and an armor tank. Lack of vaga T2 resists, dps and drones mean a shield stabber won't kill a good Omen pilot or it's easy with an armor tanked Stabber...

More drones and dps will only add to the Stabber as a kiter and as said in other posts do not promote overall balance. Don't get me wrong I would love to have an I-win button but I'm happier if nobody gets one.

tl;dr Stabber is a destroyer murderer, is not outperformed by Bellicose and doesn't need more dps.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#19 - 2012-09-22 00:08:20 UTC
seems like EVE is full of destroyers now
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-09-22 12:36:06 UTC
Heh, with just 2 TEs and 425s it seems the new stabber can get over 40km of falloff, with room to spare for a slightly better shield tank than the old shield rupture. DPS is a little low though
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