These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP – Humiliation via Face Book / Double Standards

First post
Author
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#21 - 2012-09-18 19:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Dibble Dabble wrote:
Lots of text


Sorry to hijack the troll festival, but I'm going to agree with OP on (parts of) this. OP is not complaining about ganking game mechanics here, oh all ye who use children's tears for jerk lube. He is complaining about CCP's marketing tactics and that the rules of etiquette that they enforce on the players they obviously don't apply to themselves.

And the players of any MMO should be concerned when their host company starts talking about console games because that's always a sign that you - yes you - are about to be sold out and left to wither away on the vine.

Also, laugh all you want, but Facebook is still kind of a big deal. Even if you don't touch Facebook with a ten meter pole (I don't use it, either) there are still over 750,000,000 people who do. Any company that ignores Facebook as a marketing tool is just plain stupid.

You may now resume your arrogant troll-a-thon.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

stoicfaux
#22 - 2012-09-18 19:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Dibble Dabble wrote:
It would appear that CCP marketing think its a good thing to humiliate a player via facebook.

It would appear that CCP is run by ****heads. For some people this is a selling point, for others, it's not.

Vote with your $$$.


edit: Censored a word that made it past the profanity filter.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#23 - 2012-09-18 19:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
AFAIK the rule about not posting KMs has nothing to do with humiliation (since we do that plenty as it is without them).

Also, it is not humiliation, but a public lesson for all future freighter pilots.
Robert De'Arneth
#24 - 2012-09-18 19:43:12 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Dibble Dabble wrote:
Lots of text


Sorry to hijack the troll festival, but I'm going to agree with OP on (parts of) this. OP is not complaining about ganking game mechanics here, oh all ye who use children's tears for jerk lube. He is complaining about CCP's marketing tactics and that the rules of etiquette that they enforce on the players they obviously don't apply to themselves.

And the players of any MMO should be concerned when their host company starts talking about console games because that's always a sign that you - yes you - are about to be sold out and left to wither away on the vine.

Also, laugh all you want, but Facebook is still kind of a big deal. Even if you don't touch Facebook with a ten meter pole (I don't use it, either) there are still over 750,000,000 people who do. Any company that ignores Facebook as a marketing tool is just plain stupid.

You may now resume your arrogant troll-a-thon.


Well since the OP ignored it maybe you will answer, what does facebook have to do with these forums? I mean CCP as far as I know did not break their rules, they did not post a kill board mail to these forums. Obviously CCP agrees that Facebook is a good tool , I also do, login everyday to see whats up with family and freinds who do not live by me. *shurg* That still does not explain how they broke their own rules.

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#25 - 2012-09-18 19:43:50 UTC
No problems here since I do not 'do' Facebook.

Do think CCP needs to rethink the posting of killboard stuff since it matters to, eh, not to me but others.
Trow a bone CCP, if you think its viable for the utter crap that is FB (next to those tasty RMT ads) you should allow it in someway on your own forums.
These are marketing tools as well, but I'm sure you're well aware of that. Smile
Sturmwolke
#26 - 2012-09-18 19:43:58 UTC
Screenshot / link for non-Facebook users?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2012-09-18 19:50:30 UTC
It's not humiliating its educational, lol @ 126k exotic dancers.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-09-18 19:50:58 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
AFAIK the rule about not posting KMs has nothing to do with humiliation (since we do that plenty as it is without them).

Also, it is not humiliation, but a public lesson for all future freighter pilots.


Pre-API verification the no killmail rule was because people just made fake killmails to support their argument in CAOD.

Post-API I have no idea.
Smoke Adian
#29 - 2012-09-18 19:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoke Adian
The no killmail rule does not exist outside of a thread in the old CAOD archive. It is not included in the new forum rules nor is there any additional rules thread in the CAOD section. In fact, I see several uncensored KM links in CAOD right now.

Also, km's were never banned due to "etiquette" or whatever dumb reason you're pulling out of thin air - it was because CCP felt they encouraged flame threads. Read for yourself: http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1237054

tl:dr The rule you claim CCP is breaking doesn't exist.
Smoke Adian
#30 - 2012-09-18 20:06:55 UTC
Dibble Dabble wrote:
It would it appear to me that CCP are no longer marketing a game that used to be based on strategy, skills, risk, planning to one of quick and easy wins, no risk and little skill, otherwise known as console gaming and I wonder why?


Yeah, there's definitely not thousands of people engaged in fleet warfare and sov battles every day and places like Syndicate are certainly not full of small gang warfare and crazy hot-droppers.

Also, how did you get ganked into rage quitting if there's "no risk" left in this game? Props on your well thought out argument.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-09-18 20:09:19 UTC
Dibble Dabble wrote:
A recent post by CCP on Facebook shared a link to a killboard kill. The loss a 22bil freighter, to a empire suicide gank using 6 T1 battlecruisers. It would appear that CCP marketing think its a good thing to humiliate a player via facebook. It should be noted that it’s not allowed to post killboard links in the official forums. Double standards is not new to CCP and maybe the continual decline in player numbers is causing them to resort to desperate measures to market the game.

CCP have locked threads, containing a kill board links in their official forums where posting is restricted to “paying” members however they are happy to not only endorse the humiliation of a player in public , but use this as a marketing tool.

I would question why CCP would sanction such a move. Are they now telling everyone that in 3 months you and a few mates can have the skills to cause someone to suffer such a loss? Are they now telling everyone that 3 month old alts can fund their game play with a little empire suicide ganking if they get lucky. Maybe they been taking lessons from the Goon Marketing Department, we know how much they just love to publicly humiliate other players.

I was told some time ago that creating disposable suicide alt accounts was not allowed and bans could be applied. Let’s do the sums for a suicide alt: Skills, 3 Months Plex and some ships. Cost £3bil. Income £10-20 bil before sec status hits -5 or CCP take action. Delete account, start again. No Risk, High Reward.

It would it appear to me that CCP are no longer marketing a game that used to be based on strategy, skills, risk, planning to one of quick and easy wins, no risk and little skill, otherwise known as console gaming and I wonder why? How much have CCP risked on Dust? In order for Eve to work with Dust are we going to dumb down Eve? Will skill points, experience, planning and large scale team work no longer matter.

Looks to me like CCP has lost its love of Eve in favour of the mass market that console games can access. Question is should Dust fail what impact will it have on Eve? Wonder how long before CCP offer cheat codes and vanity items become more than a just a pair of boots.

Maybe your misfortune will be CCP's next victim in CCP humiliation of their paying members, thats how much they value you.

So, following CCP's lead, I have sold my Capital BPO's and I have taken down my POS's. I have 3 suicide alts in training. Will share my success / failure at Xmas.




Soooo you're mad because the forum rules don't apply to facebook? Seriously? How dare they want to share something that would possibly get more people interested on their facebook page.

Don't be an angry immature crybaby.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#32 - 2012-09-18 20:13:17 UTC
As I explain to people (because people come to me saying "hey, that guy that was killed in Libya, the news says he played that game you play"), this game is all about killing other people's ships. You play chess to checkmate someone else. You play Eve to blow up someone elses ship. if you can't do that, then you take measures to keep from being blown up. (evidently you have more options than Chess).

I also explain that there are people who come to the game thinking it's going to be happy fairy land and they get smacked down hard.

In light of the recent news, a fundraiser for VR exceeded initial expectations. The same player base that would gank you in two seconds can also be charitable - there have been PLEX drives over previous incidents.

So what does this mean?

It means that this is just a game and armies of darkness are not going to march over the face of the earth (at least not BECAUSE of this game).


Now, regarding the FB post: was the real name and personal info of the player made public?

Are our in-game characters public or are they private?

Do we, playing an MMO, and pertaining to matters of our characters in game, have an expectation of privacy?


See how that works?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#33 - 2012-09-18 20:15:09 UTC



Your getting upset that they publish the suicide gank of a 20b isk freighter, yet

  • you don't mention the successful ponzi schemes that scammed 4000+ people out of trillions of isk?
  • you don't mention the Corp Thefts of hundreds of billions to trillions in assets?
  • you don't mention Alliance sabotage, where spies disband entire alliances of thousands of players?


Hell, Causality Trailer encourages lying and being underhanded to sabatoge an entire alliance because they killed your Merlin...

A large portion of EvE's PR centers around, in EvE, you have a choice to use your power as you choose, gaining profit by hard work and cooperation, or by destroying the work of others and taking whatever you can!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-09-18 20:55:20 UTC
I do take issue with this.

Not because CCP posted a killboard link, but because for some dumb reason we're not allowed to do that here.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#35 - 2012-09-18 20:59:07 UTC
As Hannibal Lector would say, "Cry, cry. Cry, cry."

wait...
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#36 - 2012-09-18 21:18:19 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I do take issue with this.

Not because CCP posted a killboard link, but because for some dumb reason we're not allowed to do that here.

I woulda thought this is a no-brainer.

1. they own the rules. they do what they damn well please.
2. they didn't post the KM on the forums which is the actual rule you're referring to.
3. it's promotional. it betters OUR game. brings in more noobs who want to fly/kill freighters.
4. it's kinda funny.
5. nope. it's REALLY funny.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Dibble Dabble
Capital Assets Inc
#37 - 2012-09-18 21:28:48 UTC
The trolls are out in force tonight. I am sure they are nice people in real life. Whilst I value their opinions I am saddened they resort to childish insults rather than reasoned arguments, maybe I am simply asking too much? It maybe that their ingame persona is reflected in their forum posts and if their ingame persona is that of an ignorant, dumb, childish troll then they have my sincere congratulations for doing it so well. Calling me a crybaby was something only a child could conjure up, and the old "Ragequit" insinuation was one of those golden moments from 2005 or was it 2006. Your all so passé.

Some clarification.

Whats FaceBook got to do with these forums you have asked?

In my view CCP should have a consistent approach to their standards and players should expect a little respect from CCP, after all we are all customers. Would any other business ridicule / humiliate their source of income? They ban links to kill mails on the boards so why ignore this rule when the marketing team want some cheap laughs? Does not matter if it was facebook, twitter or any other social media or official CCP channel. Does not matter if the real name / address / telephone number of the customer was not included many people will know him / her in game. For those who say its now allowed, I think you will find the ISD delete them as soon as they find them.

I am sure CCP take action against those that recycle -5's, but its not consistent and many /most get away with it. So an account is banned. The assets have been moved big deal, thats going to hurt, not. New accounts will be up and running long before CCP issue a ban.

There is an issue of balance. It does not matter the value of the contents of a ship and I would agree no ship should be safe, space is a dangerous place. But should 6 T1 ships do so much damage in empire before Concord can do their bit? Seems concord went for doughnuts or maybe goons / others know how to "use" the system. It worries me CCP have set concord to be so ineffective.

Player numbers are falling, less players on-online, hardly any new players willing to grind skills and power of two back is back to get what we all need, lots more carebear / suicide / spy alts. Its years since a record was broken and plex prices continue to rise despite CCP's recent Plex Offers, a sure sign the company needs some cash. How far is Dust behind schedule, a year? Did CCP fire 20% of their staff not too long ago. Dust is critical, to Eve as well as CCP.

Dust is CCP's ace in the hole. They hope that many new console players will see the light and sign up for eve. I am sure we will see some nice tempting offers for Dust Players. I wonder how the 14 year old "veteran console" Dust Player will fund his monthly subs? Maybe a get rich quick suicide ganking model would work? Look how easy it is? ----> Points to facebook link.

If Dust Fails to generate the income CCP need what will happen to Eve? I really don’t know , maybe CCP don’t know. If Dust takes off and is a success who will CCP prioritise in their development cycle. the masses or the Eve Vets?

I am sure the trolls will be back, please try and look at the bigger picutre. its not just about Pew Pew, Shooting ****. PVP and being a real ********, but you all do it so well.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-09-18 21:32:15 UTC
Dibble Dabble wrote:
But should 6 T1 ships do so much damage in empire before Concord can do their bit?


you're disregarding the fits, the likelihood that these pilots have hardwirings and probably solid gunnery skills

meanwhile the freighter pilot has hull upgrades I and is on autopilot with his life's worth in the freighter

if you think that lazy/dumb players losing their their assets to other players is bad for the game, leave the game because that's exactly what this game is about - survival of the fittest

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-09-18 21:32:40 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
1. they own the rules. they do what they damn well please.

Not really.

Touval Lysander wrote:
2. they didn't post the KM on the forums which is the actual rule you're referring to.

So?

Touval Lysander wrote:
3. it's promotional. it betters OUR game. brings in more noobs who want to fly/kill freighters.

So?

Touval Lysander wrote:
4. it's kinda funny.
5. nope. it's REALLY funny.

So?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#40 - 2012-09-18 21:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Dibble Dabble wrote:
Would any other business ridicule / humiliate their source of income?

THIS is the point of contention and has been explained by many others.

Ridicule/humiliate is plain wrong as a term UNLESS you happen to be 1, the victim, 2 a highsec indy player.

For everybody else, Eve IS a PvP centric game based around death, destruction, misery and the freighter kill is GOOD and publiscizing it to bring in more looney, crazy wild boy pilots is also GOOD.

What's CCP gonna do? Show everyone holding hands singing Kumbaya in 1.0 to bring in new punters? How do you qualify showing death and destruction w/o a KM?

CCP can make vids and claim "actual footage used" but to a sceptical, hard-to-please gaming world it means little. A KM gives it providence.

Turning grown men into quivering heaps of jelly is Eve. htfu.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."