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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Tutorial and Opportunities Suggestions/Comments

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#121 - 2015-03-03 09:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. we got lots of people in Rookie completely bewildered about how they're supposed to buy "a skill" while they're sitting on a gate (because the NPE put them there) while not having enough money to do so. There's many more issues with the whole thing (see here and here).


Simply put: the people who put together and OKed these tutorial texts and Opportunities (the UI/coding is fine) did a really bad job and the result is that any true newbie who by accident gets this new NPE is going to run into massive problems. Partly because the tut is way too short, partly because a lot of it doesn't make sense and is riddled with issues and mistakes, and mostly because there's 2 Opportunities that will completely **** them over.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Cellini Benvenuto
Ephemeral Syzygy
#122 - 2015-03-03 10:06:37 UTC
Hello everyone,

It is nice to see the veterans looking after the New Player Experience! As a complete newbie myself (in eve and in mmo), here are a few of the issues I faced/am facing and that might help improve experience for the others too:

Sandbox versus scripting: The reason I have joined eve is because it is a sandbox, everyone plays on the same server and, in many ways, it is completely open ended. That's the part I like. However, when you start out in a game like this, you tend to have very little idea of what you can do, what you are supposed to do, and what possibilities and opportunities exist. As such, a bit more scripting via the tutorials wouldn't be unhelpful.

The tutorials currently focus on the absolute basics of the game, but do a very poor job of explaining what's really going on in the eve universe. For instance, trading, faction warfare, planetary interaction, how to fit the ships given the amount of choice available, how to plan your skills, the importance of implants, remaps, what is pvp and how to survive it are all things that can help a newbie get into the game more. Instead, those who really want to learn the game end up reading a variety of guides/trying to get help where they can. But for most, that amount of patience is perhaps not possible.

I am too new for it to be taken as a thoughtful suggestion, but:

1. Tutorials that actually introduce you to the game instead of just its basic mechanics would be helpful. The Sisters of Eve story arch, for instance, could be converted into a long tutorial (or have something similar) and introduce you to some of the more elaborate concepts perhaps?
2. Entry level EVE-approved newbie corps: just for your first fifteen or so days in eve. Again, it can work as a tutorial. On the forums, and even in game, I sense that a lot of vets don't mind taking time to help newbies. And it is really, really heartening. But if it was connected ingame with a bit more structure (not too much, just a corps where you can hope to find a mentor for your first few days in eve, get a hang of PvP, duels, faction warfare, etc) would be really welcome.
3. The amount of travelling required. Once you know what you are doing, you see the profit at the end of the line, I guess travelling 20-30 jumps isn't all that much of a bore. But when you are just starting out, even 8 jumps feels like a long, long time. You essentially log off and come back on once the auto pilot's finished his work. But again, as a newbie, it tends to put you off a little bit. I'm not sure whether there is any way to improve this part of the in game experience, but it should perhaps be looked into?
4. Skills: Understanding the skill upgrades without the neccessity of finding about and downloading evemon would be very, very helpful. It gives you a goal. And short term goals are important when you start out in a new game, especially in a sandbox, open-ended game.

Now, I understand that anyone under a year's playing time is considered a newbie in Eve. But the first day, the first week and the first month newbies do need something a little different and are more reluctant to jump on to forums/chats and, especially on the first couple of days, feel completely overwhelmed.
Kei Kitsugama
Doomheim
#123 - 2015-03-03 10:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kei Kitsugama
Hi, I've tried the EVE Trial 2-3 times over the years. So when I saw the 30 days trial I had to give it a go to see the changes.

Why did they remove the Tutorial section from the game and introduce "Opportunities"? The old tutorial, while slow and methodical, told you everything you needed to know.

First of all, it starts you out in your ship instead of your pod, which doesn't even let people know what a pod is. After combat, you are told to buy something on the market, when you have only 5000 ISK.

It then tells you to use a warp gate, and then to buy a skillbook and inject it, when you are down ISK from the first purchase.

If I hadn't played the trial before and knew about the Agent finder, I would've been very frustrated and lost as to what to do.

Furthermore, later in the career agent missions, you are given things like "Civilian Missile Launcher" previously the Aura tutorial would show you how to fit and would give you the ammunition for it. Now since that part is missing. You are given a useless piece of equipment and told to use it. This is only one example of this occuring, modules, ammunition, skillbooks, are all gone because of the missing Aura Turorial.

I have no idea why this was implemented in this state, but it's not going to help people curious about EVE to delve into it further, of that I am sure.

Another player asked me to elaborate, but I don't know, it would be easier listing this right with the NPE than things wrong.

1. Why start 2015 with new account offers, 30 day free trial. When the NPE appears to be completely untested and looks as if it would drive new players away rather than help them?

2. Starting the game in space combat may look good on the surface to draw players in, but people need time to familiarize themselves with the UI, dropping them into a combat situation straight away just complicates things. Start with explaining the UI while docked, then the UI while in space, then move on to navigating in space, then to object interaction, then to combat.

I don't know even why I have to explain this since, the old tutorial did a fine job of it. Trying to make EVE 'look' more action packed is being disingenuous. You may draw them into the game quicker, but you'll just kick them straight out as they continually run into unexplained things.

3. Telling people to dock to a station and then buy something from the market. Why? Why are they buying something? Why do they need to know how the market works in the first 15 minutes? The market isn't a simple thing you just brush over quickly.

4. Telling people to use a stargate with no direction of where they are going or why. And then telling them to use the market to buy a random skillbook, in space, and then to inject it. WHY? This is where most people get completely confused. Where are they going? Why are they doing this?

5. People end up using the rookie channel for help and hopefully find their way to the Career Agent, if they havent quit in frustration or having such a poor opinion of the game after such a seemingly random tutorial.

6. Disabling the Aura Tutorial Tab "breaks" many of the Careers Missions as you do not have the supplied ammo, skillbooks, ammunition. Some which are not available, even on the market.
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#124 - 2015-03-03 18:05:28 UTC
I went ahead and added opportunities as well to the thread title as that's the new system being looked at so please give feedback on that as well.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#125 - 2015-03-03 19:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Sorry CCP, but the new and (as you call it) 'improved' tutorial us utterly crap.

Instead of making it easier for new players to get into the game, it makes it 100 times harder.

It's so full of weird and unlogical things, NO helpful information and impossible tasks (Let's require a new player to buy a skill, while (s)he doesn't even have the ISK for it).


Sorry, the "old" NPE wasn't prefect. But the new one is just stupid and ****.


So, take it down...Get some proper tutorial going...have it tested...and tested again (plenty of helpful veterans who are more then willing to assist here if you ask them)...


And THEN, when it is actually working and helpful to new players, hand it out to new players.

Now, you are actually making people run away faster then the old NPE.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#126 - 2015-03-04 13:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
I made a YT info vid for two reasons:

- to help newbies deal with this NPE
- to explain the problems and issues to people who are interested in this whole stuff


[sarcasm]
It might be handy for devs to watch this because apparently videos like this are needed
[/sarcasm]
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#127 - 2015-03-05 08:26:21 UTC
Just ran into a newbie:

[ 2015.03.05 07:42:46 ] xx> ty, tying to do a level 1 agent mission, just started last night and I get killed by these low level drones, tough game to get into

[ 2015.03.05 08:00:53 ] xx> Thi sgame is overwhelming. And I am on a free 30 day, but seriously can't even do a basic mission so can't see why anyone would pay to play

[ 2015.03.05 08:02:50 ] xx> ok so I can't do the firat agent mission, how long til I can upgrade to do it? Do I go mine for a few days?


At first I thought him to be a whiner, but then:

[ 2015.03.05 08:06:12 ] xx> Well I don't think I have the frat mission, I wen to a staion to bu something and I have to go rescue some miners and 3 drones shoot at me constantly while I shoot at one of them and my shileds and structure and armour go to **** while they just fly


Is he in a newbie ship? So I convoed him:

[ 2015.03.05 08:07:44 ] Gregor Parud > did you do the career tutorials?
[ 2015.03.05 08:08:04 ] xx> I did what I see as opportunities ?
[ 2015.03.05 08:08:24 ] xx> I followed those but I am stuck on injecting skills
[ 2015.03.05 08:08:30 ] Gregor Parud > ok, you can't really do normal missions in the freebee ship, it's not good enough
[ 2015.03.05 08:09:14 ] Gregor Parud > that whole new opportunity tutorial is **** and teaches you nothign while giving you situations you can't deal with
[ 2015.03.05 08:10:00 ] xx> I tried to get a skill from market but it said I wasn't high enough to buy. So I went to station than tried to buy and nothing happened. I don't see a skill cheap enough and it said something like took a day to buty?
[ 2015.03.05 08:09:41 ] Gregor Parud > Hit F12, go to career agents
[ 2015.03.05 08:16:33 ] Gregor Parud > the career tutorials will give you free ships, lots of isk, skillbooks and modules and it'll explain a whole lot of stuff





You ****** NPE almost cost you a potential customer because he couldn't complete the opportunities he never got the "hit F12, do career tuts" and now tried to do normal missions with his Ibis. Disable the NPE, sort it out, then redeploy.
Kry Meariver
Kry Meariver Corporation
#128 - 2015-03-08 21:13:04 UTC
I just recently transferred this toon to its own account; and went through the tutorials for a another new toon again. I am not a new citizen, so keep this in mind as you read this.

I do not think that opportunities are very useful. All that is offered are some tasks to perform with little instructions on how to perform them or any motivation to do so. I see too many questions pop up in the rookie chat. For a truly new player a certain amount of hand holding is usually necessary and they are just not understanding. The old tutorial is hardly perfect, but it does do the job of teaching the bare bones basics.

If we want to provide a better new player experience in the game, let's take a new approach all together. Let's offer new players the option of going into a rookie corporation that works like Eve University*. This new rookie corporation would have the 11% tax, be immune to war decs, have no ability to own POS, POCO's, or other anchorable items and would be headed by experienced players who can help create content geared towards a new players. It would essentially be a game sanctioned social corp. To prevent exploitation, we would need to screen the veterans who run the corp (like I.S.D.) and have rules around their conduct. If we can get new players involved, they will subscribe.
Mitzrael Mak-Davos
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2015-03-13 13:09:16 UTC
Hi there,

I´m a newbie to EVE and I am having some issues with the Opportunities/Tutorial...

The thing is, I installed the game, for the first time, the day before yesterday...went through the character creation and when finished, I was in my ship. There was a box from Aura, which was the tutorial and I clicked YES to the question if I wanted to go through the tutorial, but as it was late night, I logged out right there. (clicked loggout safely).

Yesterday, I logged in and, for my surprise, I was in the middle of a warp. I don´t have a clue on why I was in a warp, since I´m pretty sure I did not click on anything the day before.

Also, there is no tutorial anymore. According to the help I got from the chat, there should be a button in the format of a portrait right above the help button...but this portrait button (related to Aura, so I was told) does not exist.

Also, when clicked on the help button, wI was told there should be 2 tabs, 1 for support and 1 for tutorials....but the tab for tutorials does not exist either.

The only thing related to that that I can see, are the opportunities...but it does not clearly explain what to do.

Is this normal? No button for Aura, no way to access the tutorials...logging in in the middle of a warp without commanding the ship to do that?

I´m considering re-installing the game...or creating a new character in order to go for the tutorial...

Is there another way?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Mitzrael Mak-Davos
Orti Aurilen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#130 - 2015-03-15 07:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Orti Aurilen
OK i do not know when they did the micro patch to change the tutorial but from what i was shown and told by a friend this tutorial is not the same this tutorial is udder garbage it is set up for you to fail and to be trapped in it yes a few parts on it are helpful and teach you some things but two other parts leave you stuck with no way around them i only managed to do them cause some one was kind enough and gave me isk the new tutorial starts you off in the middle of nowhere with 5K isk and as you do what is asked of you you get no reward of ship add on, skillbooks or isk you are then asked to buy a random item in the shop so you'll try to find something cheap cause you only have 5K isk after you find it you are asked to do a few more things then you are asked to buy a skill book from the market related to the next ship you want yet how is a new player going to know what he wants next and even if he does know he is now stuck in market trying to get a skill book that can go for sale from 0.01 isk to 999B isk with only 0.00 isk 4,999.99 isk if you're lucky yet the old tutorial slowly showed you about the game and gave you thinks that you could use with the agent mission which in turn would give you better things so you could do the missions better and faster
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#131 - 2015-03-15 08:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
@129 - Mitzrael.

1. You are a guinea pig for CCP. You get no "tutorial" you get the "opportunities" to guide you into the game.

2. That warp was an emergency warp. When ever you log out of space, your ship warps itself 1 million kilometer into a random direction to protect itself until it disappears. When you log back in, you warp back to the spot you were when you logged out (and that is the warp you saw).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Oraac Ensor
#132 - 2015-03-15 23:17:41 UTC
Orti Aurilen wrote:
OK i do not know when they did the micro patch to change the tutorial but from what i was shown and told by a friend this tutorial is not the same this tutorial is udder garbage it is set up for you to fail and to be trapped in it yes a few parts on it are helpful and teach you some things but two other parts leave you stuck with no way around them i only managed to do them cause some one was kind enough and gave me isk the new tutorial starts you off in the middle of nowhere with 5K isk and as you do what is asked of you you get no reward of ship add on, skillbooks or isk you are then asked to buy a random item in the shop so you'll try to find something cheap cause you only have 5K isk after you find it you are asked to do a few more things then you are asked to buy a skill book from the market related to the next ship you want yet how is a new player going to know what he wants next and even if he does know he is now stuck in market trying to get a skill book that can go for sale from 0.01 isk to 999B isk with only 0.00 isk 4,999.99 isk if you're lucky yet the old tutorial slowly showed you about the game and gave you thinks that you could use with the agent mission which in turn would give you better things so you could do the missions better and faster

You seriously expect that anyone will actually try to read that?

Ever heard of punctuation? Google it if you're unsure.
soicanforumpostsafely
Doomheim
#133 - 2015-03-17 19:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: soicanforumpostsafely
I have not read this thread and have not tried opportunities. Thank the stars when I returned to EVE it was before opportunities were shoved down rookies' throats and the tutorial/career tab was removed from the F12 Help window.

Based on rookie help channel there are two things. Rookies 1) don't understand opportunities, don't have isk to complete opportunities and 2) experienced players don't know anything about opportunities nor want to deal with it.

Give the tutorial/career tab back to rookies. So many times the answer to their questions would be answered by the tutorial or the career button on the tutorial tab. Even when I link to the section of the tutorial in rookie help chat they can not get to the content from the link.

They can't use F12 tutorial tab and can't even get there from a directly provided link. That is absurd.

It doesn't matter how long the trial is if they can't figure out the game using opportunities and the content that experienced players know how to give help with is no longer available.
Spike Alfrir
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2015-03-18 13:14:30 UTC
Hi,
Im a completely new player to EVE i heard lots of good things about the game and watch some very good vids about the game play online that just made me want to play it so much more BUT.

after try to do the tutorial iv come to the concussion that its impossible to complete with the limited information it provides about the game.

which was very shocking because what i could tell from the vids i found online was that the tutorial used to be very informative and a solid basics for new players to grow from i highly recommend going back to it.

as for myself i wont be playing this game any time soon because the way it starts right now has ruined the game for me which is a shame.

thank you for your time
soicanforumpostsafely
Doomheim
#135 - 2015-03-19 16:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: soicanforumpostsafely
Wonderful new player experience in rookie help today. A claimed 7 year vet in rookie help chat saying he did opportunities and they are easy for "newbros who can read and are not stupid". That is the the type of "new" player experience that is not going to help EVE get subs. Especially when rookies with well worded questions and valid confusion in doing opportunities are subjected to that kind of rookie hate in rookie help.

I remember a time when rookies said EVE was the best experience they had ever had with a community when starting an MMO that is becoming less and less the case with bittervets.
Abryelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2015-03-22 23:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Abryelle
Hey there,

I'm also a new player who had the chance to experience the Opportunity "tutorial".

I just made a very similar post on Reddit venting my frustrations after realizing I've been doing a different tutorial then some of my friends who started at the same time as I did.

I had been asking for helping on Rookie Chat and had been responded to with the tone "how are you not figuring this out?", "Just read the tutorial!". I was suspicious that we had been talking about different things...

Today, the three of us are on Skype and I'm doing the Career Agent for Exploration, part 3 of 5. I had NO IDEA how to deploy a scanner probe and use the scanning interface (I think the one with the spheres?). I asked my friend and he said, "Why don't you just read the tutorial?". There was none... and after a couple of comparison screenshots, we realized I had a different tutorial than them. At the same time, I had a GM contact me directly (kudos to customer support though, very friend guy) and we found a couple conclusions...

1) I didn't have Aura (?) in my UI between the ? and the New Eden Store.
2) I didn't have a Tutorial section under General Settings in my settings.
3) Nothing in the "Reset Tutorial state" in the Reset Settings in my settings.

I was surprised the GM didn't realize these changes either.

Long story short, it took me two days to realize I had not been getting the same instruction as my friends who started at the same time. They are learning how to use the UI and the various tools via the Aura tutorial pop-ups on the bottom right, whereas I've been needing to Google it.

Does anyone know how to get the original Aura tutorial (?) without making a new account? I tried making a new character and it didn't work.

It's really frustrating. I feel like I've been ripped off for 2 days having to beg for answers on Rookie Chat and Googling.

References I found:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/06/eve-fanfest-2014-eves-plan-to-remove-tutorials-and-reinvent-th/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=405551&p=10
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/opportunities-abound-the-new-player-experience/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5590150
kitsune Sabre
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2015-03-24 13:07:34 UTC
Opportunities system is a lot better it's less boring I feel like I'm getting to the game quicker in getting things done
my previous account was a Caldari use the new system when I made the account I made now my god the tutorial is boring
GROOVE Infectious
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2015-03-24 15:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: GROOVE Infectious
Hi guys, i recently started to play eve again and i was lucky enough to get the tutorial for the second time.
I said lucky because, compared to the old tutorial, the new opportunity system is completely unhelpful to rookies, and that's obvious, because it's nothing more than an achievements system.
Half of the people in the rookie chat ask how to do simplest things, like inject a skill or make a ship active, while the other half thank for getting the Aura tutorial.
Most of the times we have to advise them to ignore opportunities and jump straight to carrer agents BUT they lack the basic stuff and knowledge, so the same problem ofter represents (expecially with exploration career).
The problem is that the New Player Experience is basically an OLD player experience, because newbies can't do half the things the opportunities require them to do,they don't know how without the tutorial.
I find Aura to be a little boring, but in my opinion it's paradoxically more useful to get into the game fast, than the opps, which failed in their objective.
My advice is to keep the opp, but combine them with our old beloved Aura, to get into the game fast (with opportunities), though having a little useful knowledge how the game works (with Aura).

Peace.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#139 - 2015-03-24 17:47:16 UTC
Abryelle wrote:
Hey there,

I'm also a new player who had the chance to experience the Opportunity "tutorial".

I just made a very similar post on Reddit venting my frustrations after realizing I've been doing a different tutorial then some of my friends who started at the same time as I did.

I had been asking for helping on Rookie Chat and had been responded to with the tone "how are you not figuring this out?", "Just read the tutorial!". I was suspicious that we had been talking about different things...

Today, the three of us are on Skype and I'm doing the Career Agent for Exploration, part 3 of 5. I had NO IDEA how to deploy a scanner probe and use the scanning interface (I think the one with the spheres?). I asked my friend and he said, "Why don't you just read the tutorial?". There was none... and after a couple of comparison screenshots, we realized I had a different tutorial than them. At the same time, I had a GM contact me directly (kudos to customer support though, very friend guy) and we found a couple conclusions...

1) I didn't have Aura (?) in my UI between the ? and the New Eden Store.
2) I didn't have a Tutorial section under General Settings in my settings.
3) Nothing in the "Reset Tutorial state" in the Reset Settings in my settings.

I was surprised the GM didn't realize these changes either.

Long story short, it took me two days to realize I had not been getting the same instruction as my friends who started at the same time. They are learning how to use the UI and the various tools via the Aura tutorial pop-ups on the bottom right, whereas I've been needing to Google it.

Does anyone know how to get the original Aura tutorial (?) without making a new account? I tried making a new character and it didn't work.

It's really frustrating. I feel like I've been ripped off for 2 days having to beg for answers on Rookie Chat and Googling.

References I found:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/06/eve-fanfest-2014-eves-plan-to-remove-tutorials-and-reinvent-th/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=405551&p=10
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/opportunities-abound-the-new-player-experience/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5590150



Q.E.D.

The new tutorial is utterly crap and likely will turn more possible customers away from the game then pull them in.

Let us hope that those people in Iceland understand that too after the booze of FF wears off.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
roberts dragon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2015-03-25 10:21:58 UTC
would suggest more civilian modules a few more starter missions to get these and to include the basic fitting for all the modules
in these new missions so when finished every one would be able to fit a ships with all modules this would mean rigs as well.
the idea is so players can fit their ships to save the frustration of not knowing how to fit one with a basic requirement I think this would make a difference to new players . so of course you would need to change a few things but over time new players would have a far easier time.