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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1881 - 2012-09-20 09:05:38 UTC
I really hate comparing heavy missiles to other medium LR guns. The players definitely won't care about what stuff is supposed to do and will just use the most powerful or versatile thing at the time. In day-to-day gangs it's probably going to be short range guns on tier 3 battlecruisers and medium arty because of its high alpha.

Barely anyone is going to use beams or rails even with the changes.
kalbrak Jr
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1882 - 2012-09-20 09:12:32 UTC
I would like to see new modules for missiles that increase flight time, explosion radius and explosion velocity. They should use the same missile skills the effect the same stats. There should also be two new scripts for tracking disruptors that disrupt missiles. These scripts should use a new skill.

Iyica de Tylmarand
Doomheim
#1883 - 2012-09-20 09:30:19 UTC
kalbrak Jr wrote:
I would like to see new modules for missiles that increase flight time, explosion radius and explosion velocity. They should use the same missile skills the effect the same stats. There should also be two new scripts for tracking disruptors that disrupt missiles. These scripts should use a new skill.

Agree with both of these ideas. If I'm not mistaken the only way to increase missile explosion velocity is rigs.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#1884 - 2012-09-20 09:39:30 UTC
kalbrak Jr wrote:
I would like to see new modules for missiles that increase flight time, explosion radius and explosion velocity.


What's wrong with TEs and TCs affecting those stats?

kalbrak Jr wrote:
They should use the same missile skills the effect the same stats. There should also be two new scripts for tracking disruptors that disrupt missiles. These scripts should use a new skill.


I would be ok with additional skill for missile disruption.
Leave 'Weapon Disruption' skill as it is and add 'Missile Destabilization' ( equivalent of 'Turret Destabilization' skill ).
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#1885 - 2012-09-20 09:39:33 UTC
kalbrak Jr wrote:
I would like to see new modules for missiles that increase flight time, explosion radius and explosion velocity. They should use the same missile skills the effect the same stats. There should also be two new scripts for tracking disruptors that disrupt missiles. These scripts should use a new skill.



CCP Fozzie wrote:

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-These changes apply equally to guided and unguided missiles
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and increases explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1886 - 2012-09-20 09:42:38 UTC
Katharina B wrote:
CCP abandon the daft idea that TD affecting missiles! Fix defenders or let it be! You nerf a whole weapon system and race because you are unable to bring DEFENDERS and TWO SINGLE ships in line! Good job CCP! You have an already existing option to destroy incoming missiles. Your problem if it causes lag or you are unable to do the right codings!

Why not to have 2 options for anti-missle defence? Like DPS could be brought by guns AND drones, same is here.
The only problem is to avoid that uber-trackdis that everyone would fit. The solution could be to make a special module "missile-dis" or at least a special script.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1887 - 2012-09-20 09:51:21 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
kalbrak Jr wrote:
I would like to see new modules for missiles that increase flight time, explosion radius and explosion velocity.

What's wrong with TEs and TCs affecting those stats?

Simple question - do TEs and TCs affect drones? Why?
Iyica de Tylmarand
Doomheim
#1888 - 2012-09-20 09:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Iyica de Tylmarand
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Katharina B wrote:
CCP abandon the daft idea that TD affecting missiles! Fix defenders or let it be! You nerf a whole weapon system and race because you are unable to bring DEFENDERS and TWO SINGLE ships in line! Good job CCP! You have an already existing option to destroy incoming missiles. Your problem if it causes lag or you are unable to do the right codings!

Why not to have 2 options for anti-missle defence? Like DPS could be brought by guns AND drones, same is here.
The only problem is to avoid that uber-trackdis that everyone would fit. The solution could be to make a special module "missile-dis" or at least a special script.
Because turrets don't have a 2nd defence option. Or do you think it's a good idea to introduce bullets that deflect incoming bullets and lasers that nullify incoming lasers What?

Turrets already have significant advantages over missiles. Missile projection was the main advantage which they are nerfing. I'm fine with that. TD affecting missiles I'm iffy about. Ever piloted a Drake with sensor damps on you? I think they already do a good enough job.

Range nerf is fine. TD affecting missiles is stupid. Fix defender missiles I agree. And reduce the damage nerf to Heavy Missiles to a 10% nerf. 20% nerf is excessive. Only way I would approve of a 20% nerf to Heavy Missiles is if HAMs get a 10% damage buff.
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#1889 - 2012-09-20 10:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
I'm fine with bringing HMLs in line with other medium size long range weapons, but to compensate I think HAMs need a buff. The following is what I think is a good idea.

5% damage increase for HAMs
HAM velocity increase countered by a travel time nerf so that overall they maintain their current paper range but it reflects reality far more. A ship travelling 1100ms or so away from a HAM ship effectively cuts the HAM range by half. Turret ships deal with this by switching ammo to Scorch or Null. HAMs don't have this option which is another reasonw hy HMLs were used sooooo much more. The fact that TDs are being proposed to further decrease the range of HAMs just adds insult to injury and I think it's a factor that was ill-considered.

If this buff is implemented for HAMs, I think the curret HML nerfs and the TD buffs will be justified. I think people were so caught up in nerfing HMLs that the effect on HAMs got completely overlooked.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#1890 - 2012-09-20 10:19:59 UTC
CCP should remove defender missiles totally and reimburse used skill points.

Now when tracking disruptor affects missiles there is 3 different ways to counter missiles compared to 1 for guns.

If you tracking disrupt , smart bomb and use defender missiles, i bet those missiles does not any damage at all.

Also ccp should change missiles invulnerable for smart bomb.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1891 - 2012-09-20 10:29:46 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Bazzalisk wrote:
I would like to point out that HM are only really used at long ranges like 80k in blobs because in small warfare, whatever is getting shot can usually just warp away. So let's talk about blobs.


I virtually never fly in blobs and yet I still have 2x more kills in Drakes than in all other ships combined. And furhtermore, I've always leaned heavily towards HML as being superior to HAMs. Though a proper HAM Drake is certainly a monster. :)

-Liang
I would like to point out that Caldari are referred to as the kings of PvE by some people which causes some people to then choose Caldari for the Drake and Tengu. They then do their PvE for a while, get bored, want to do some PvP only to find that the only useful ship they can fly is the Drake. THAT'S why it gets used so often. Not because the Drake is some kind of mother-of-all godships. It's because the rest of the caldari ships are all useless for pvp.


Hahahahahahahahahhaa, no. You are totally, completely, and utterly wrong. Caldari are the upcoming kings of small gang PVP for anyone who has a clue what they're doing. :)

-Liang



your nothing but a troll Liang small gang and solo has always been Winmatar specialized and always will be.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1892 - 2012-09-20 10:37:10 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
CCP should remove defender missiles totally and reimburse used skill points.

Now when tracking disruptor affects missiles there is 3 different ways to counter missiles compared to 1 for guns.

If you tracking disrupt , smart bomb and use defender missiles, i bet those missiles does not any damage at all.

Also ccp should change missiles invulnerable for smart bomb.



naw i think they need to not use TD for missles cause it would make TD a swiss army knife modual to "always" be fitted like prop+tackle in pvp.

Make a separate modual for disrupting missles so its a choise to disrupt guns OR missles not both.. and are we forgetting the target dampers gallente frequently use? even with like 100km range on HMs we can be damped down to just a couple kelomiters and forceing close quarters upon snipers/long rangers.

dont nerf dmg on missles.
the other changes seem acceptable except TD which shouldnt effect missles (make a missle disruptor insted)
buff target damps a little so people will actually USE them.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1893 - 2012-09-20 10:41:34 UTC
also notise how its nullsec gimps who are whineing about drake blobs and Heavy missles? Twisted

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Rataxas Immortal
True RoHiKaNs
#1894 - 2012-09-20 10:49:40 UTC
Recoil IV wrote:
hey ccp,can i get back all my caldari spaceshit and missile skills reimbursed into skillpoints so i can invest them in something usefull after the nerf.thanks :D



No you cant ... Now burn Caldarilover Burn !

Only true answer is a Minmatar ! Hail the RUST
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#1895 - 2012-09-20 10:54:37 UTC
I like arbitrators .... I like them now .... can u imagine how I will love them after the TD change Twisted
Glasgow Dunlop
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1896 - 2012-09-20 11:16:58 UTC
I wonder if he's read most of this now, and the fact he's getting paid to read this aswell :)

@glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet

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Glasgow EVE Meets Organiser
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1897 - 2012-09-20 11:19:17 UTC
Holy page spam Batman!

Knew missiles to be a hot topic but this exceeds expectations .. hahahahaha.

Obligatory on topic remark: Focus TDs effectiveness onto the hulls designed to field them.
Meolyne
Perkone
Caldari State
#1898 - 2012-09-20 11:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Meolyne
[Joke] Why you've removed my AWESOME 2T5 arcane blast bonus FFS ! Pirate [/Joke]

Quote:
Why nerf things when you could buff things instead?

CCP, your answer is the best answer i've heard in all MMO i played up to date. BRAVO !

It's too bad you're dropping Defender missiles. The thing i regret is defenders protect only incoming missiles to own ship. Not allies but i can understand for complexity purposes. So i will never see defender patforms roaming in fleet ever. Roll

About the Nerf, i agree in general. Just remember that you're driving the Fury Cruise (and some Rage Torp) users to drop completely theses missiles. (aswell as Precision)

Reasons (I'll take some old names for fancy purposes)

DMG : Wrath Cruise = Wrath Precision Cruise < Wrath Fury Cruise
ER/EV : Wrath Fury Cruise < Wrath Cruise < Wrath Precision.

1 st : Precision still not used. Regular variant already can wipe frigates with 1 PWNAGE (target painter)
2 nd : Fury dropped completely. Huge malus on BC/ Cruiser sized ships which ALREADY requires 2-3 TP + implants to equals the regular Missile Dmg Output.
3 rd : Adding some more malus with TD and Co. aswell as very effective Defender missiles used by NPC, and you're killing larges T2 missiles boats.

The few post i've read some time ago was usually prays to give cruise+ Furies some love.
Right now you are designing Cruise Fury for POS bashing. But remember Citadel Missiles are already used in this task.

TL : DR :
Nice
But give love to ER/EV of Fury cruise instead of more DMG bonus.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1899 - 2012-09-20 11:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • This change will make Tracking Disruptors very overpowered!
    • That is a very valid concern and one we will be continuing to look very closely at. Some options on the table include making TDs affect missiles at a lower severity to guns, dropping the base power of TDs and increasing the bonus from TD bonused ships, or splitting off a separate set of missile disruptor modules that use the same skill and get the same ship bonuses as tracking disruptors (in the same way that ECM ships have different racial jammers). One way or another we will be working with you all to make sure Ewar is as balanced as possible before release in Winter.
    IMO, tracking disruptors are already OP and the only thing that has kept them somewhat in line was the chance of encountering a missile boat or two while roaming. Separate modules for disrupting turrets and missiles is the way to go here. Maybe even a different module altogether.
    kalbrak Jr
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #1900 - 2012-09-20 11:32:30 UTC
    Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
    kalbrak Jr wrote:
    I would like to see new modules for missiles that increase flight time, explosion radius and explosion velocity.


    What's wrong with TEs and TCs affecting those stats?

    kalbrak Jr wrote:
    They should use the same missile skills the effect the same stats. There should also be two new scripts for tracking disruptors that disrupt missiles. These scripts should use a new skill.


    I would be ok with additional skill for missile disruption.
    Leave 'Weapon Disruption' skill as it is and add 'Missile Destabilization' ( equivalent of 'Turret Destabilization' skill ).



    Those are for turrets using gunnery skills. There should be ones for missiles using missile skills.