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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

First post First post First post
Author
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1701 - 2012-09-19 20:55:46 UTC
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:


the sig radius gained is grossly offset by the explosion velocity penalty of having a MWD....



Could have fooled me, why do you think that null alliances are flying AB Tengus? The sparking 615 (or less) DPS?

For reference http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/knof/eve_missiles.swf

You lose 9dps on a drake vs a hurricane going 1450ms....oh noes.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1702 - 2012-09-19 21:01:17 UTC
Bloutok wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
DJCouGaR wrote:
What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now


Yeah, entirely remove the Caldari race.

No, i am not joking.

One of the problem is that CCP is not giving us the entire picture. What will be done with all the cruiser sized ships ? BCs, BSs ..... Titans ?

We have to decide if it's good with only a few pieces of the puzzle in place.

If they nerf the ECM again. There will truly be nothing left.......



So you missed the attack and support cruiser threads completely to come in here and say remove Caldari?

Seriously?


Nice empty posting, i will reply with a nice empty posting.

empty posting.



Since you can't be bothered to check the threads STICKIED IN THIS FORUM

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#1703 - 2012-09-19 21:02:36 UTC
Area51 wrote:
I think the HM changes (nerf?)is necessary to make it on par with long range medium guns.
But now, HAMs need more love!

Yeah, cause everytime I login I think man this game would be so sweet if CCP would just nerf missiles. I mean if missiles sucked I wouldn't feel so fail in my brutix.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#1704 - 2012-09-19 21:03:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

[list]
  • The damage per second of heavy missile ships like the Drake seems low, why are you making it even lower?
  • I believe the main source of disagreement here comes from comparisons between Heavy Missiles (a long range weapon platform) and short range weapons like autocannons or blasters.


    This quite simply isnt true. Its true if you only compare the HML drake to long range long range ammo against same size ships.

    Artycanes with EMP outdamage drakes at point range. The same goes for rails and beams on the appropriate hulls.

    Now against smaller, sig tanking things? Go ahead and tell me that a HML drake does more damage than a small railgun hurricane to a mwding stiletto. I have fraps footage of my stiletto taking sustained fire from around 90 drakes. Earlier in the same fight my taranis died to a single autocane. Guns and missiles arent the same, and you cant just compare eft damage numbers.
    Lili Lu
    #1705 - 2012-09-19 21:05:11 UTC
    Zarnak Wulf wrote:
    Page 85. Wow. Well hopefully CCP Fozzie is still reading this. Big smile

    I'm concerned about Tracking Disruptors. Faction Warfare is frigate heavy. We've seen the use of alot of the new frigates there. And many if not most are using tracking disruptors. A condor with light missiles, long point, and two TD is common. An arty slasher set up the same way is too. Even Atrons and Executioners will fit a TD rather then a web.

    Now I've held my peace as I can build destroyers that lock farther and shoot farther then these small, frail frigates. I also know in the background that missile boats were very capable against them as they were immune to TD. But if that's not the case I can guarantee you that everyone and their mom will be fitting a TD. Some ideas:


    • Increase the fittings on the TD. Increase the fitting grid on specialized boats.

    • Take the TD for missiles one step further and seperate them for use via race/weapon type. I.E. - create a TD for hybrids, projectiles, lasers, missiles, and a weak general purpose one.

    • Nerf the TD and boost the specialized boats.


    Good post.

    Except, I don't think it is reasonable to expect TDs for each gun and missile type. Amarr typically gets the fewest mids, even on the ewar boats. But certainly a turret TD mod and a missile TD mod appear to be being considered. The idea of a general purpose TD mod with an even weaker effect is a worthy concept to consider.

    Also, I don't think the fittings on TD need to be messed with (and it would be cpu btw which again is usually lacking on amarr boats). It would be enough to weaken the base stats such that the use of two TDs on a Caldari frig would not be worth it's present value I think.
    MIrple
    Black Sheep Down
    Tactical Narcotics Team
    #1706 - 2012-09-19 21:06:16 UTC
    Michael Harari wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

    [list]
  • The damage per second of heavy missile ships like the Drake seems low, why are you making it even lower?
  • I believe the main source of disagreement here comes from comparisons between Heavy Missiles (a long range weapon platform) and short range weapons like autocannons or blasters.


    This quite simply isnt true. Its true if you only compare the HML drake to long range long range ammo against same size ships.

    Artycanes with EMP outdamage drakes at point range. The same goes for rails and beams on the appropriate hulls.

    Now against smaller, sig tanking things? Go ahead and tell me that a HML drake does more damage than a small railgun hurricane to a mwding stiletto. I have fraps footage of my stiletto taking sustained fire from around 90 drakes. Earlier in the same fight my taranis died to a single autocane. Guns and missiles arent the same, and you cant just compare eft damage numbers.



    I highlighted the important part that is a close range weapon system with high tracking.
    Michael Harari
    Genos Occidere
    HYDRA RELOADED
    #1707 - 2012-09-19 21:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
    http://i.imgur.com/m8Aw9.jpg is a screenshot of several hundred heavy missiles flying at my stiletto.

    Also, Ive volleyed many an interceptor in my artycane.
    Marcus Harikari
    #1708 - 2012-09-19 21:11:54 UTC
    patrick elektros wrote:
    this is about CCP making more money, by making people train other skills and this nerfs people making in game money, in effect making it harder for people to pay for plex with in game isk. in effect hoping that people will in turn have to pay real money to play the game. ccp has been about making money, ad not about working with the players on some level fora while now. and this is aNERF on tengus and drakes, the 2 biggest ratting boats in the game.

    you got an issue with this, let ccp know, make them rollback the nerf, but keep in mind walmart only rolls back items it's raise prices on first.

    the moderate change would have been 7.5% reduction in missile damage and 5% in range. this wasnt against goons or anybody else, it was against all of us to pay more to play (notice plex prices at an all time high) and since the plex sellers are lookin to sell higher price plex and the plex buyers wont be able to make the money, maybe plexes will drop, but i doubt it.


    CCP keep in mind we will find better fits for better ships, no matter what you do you need to remember that nerfing pvp/pve ships and buffering industrials is the first step to being like wow, and your sandbox will get sludge in it.

    THIS
    MIrple
    Black Sheep Down
    Tactical Narcotics Team
    #1709 - 2012-09-19 21:12:51 UTC
    Michael Harari wrote:
    http://i.imgur.com/m8Aw9.jpg is a screenshot of several hundred heavy missiles flying at my stiletto.

    Also, Ive volleyed many an interceptor in my artycane.



    I am sure you have but were the intys moving did they have transversal up. Bad piloting should not be a stick to measure if a ship is op or not. Also I though the new speed of HM will now be around 9 km/s can you make your stiletto move that fast?
    Lili Lu
    #1710 - 2012-09-19 21:15:19 UTC
    Michael Harari wrote:
    http://i.imgur.com/m8Aw9.jpg is a screenshot of several hundred heavy missiles flying at my stiletto.

    Also, Ive volleyed many an interceptor in my artycane.

    We all know that tracking mechanics allow a turret to alpha a small ship at range. Conversely at some closer range depending on circumstances and ships/guns involved those turrets won't ever hit. You said it yourself. The weapons are different. Fozzie knows this.

    But you apparently missed that precisions will be getting buffed. Also, balancing all this strictly based on medium weapon system v interceptor is not going to happen.
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #1711 - 2012-09-19 21:17:16 UTC
    Marcus Harikari wrote:
    patrick elektros wrote:
    this is about CCP making more money, by making people train other skills and this nerfs people making in game money, in effect making it harder for people to pay for plex with in game isk. in effect hoping that people will in turn have to pay real money to play the game. ccp has been about making money, ad not about working with the players on some level fora while now. and this is aNERF on tengus and drakes, the 2 biggest ratting boats in the game.

    you got an issue with this, let ccp know, make them rollback the nerf, but keep in mind walmart only rolls back items it's raise prices on first.

    the moderate change would have been 7.5% reduction in missile damage and 5% in range. this wasnt against goons or anybody else, it was against all of us to pay more to play (notice plex prices at an all time high) and since the plex sellers are lookin to sell higher price plex and the plex buyers wont be able to make the money, maybe plexes will drop, but i doubt it.


    CCP keep in mind we will find better fits for better ships, no matter what you do you need to remember that nerfing pvp/pve ships and buffering industrials is the first step to being like wow, and your sandbox will get sludge in it.

    THIS

    Did you even read the post you quoted?

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)

    Bloutok
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #1712 - 2012-09-19 21:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloutok
    Lili Lu wrote:
    Bloutok wrote:
    reposting other's whines and stuff


    You know, you are late to this. And the discussion has really moved past the "just delete Caldari" exagerated angry unthinking replies. You should read more and focus on the rational discussion that is starting to occur.

    You may have something valuable to contribute to that. But your emotional reaction to the proposed (and subject to much tweeking in itself) change is not really helping the thread at this time. Commiserate with people on voice comms or something (assuming they will all think as you presently do). Then come back to post your valuable thoughts and suggestions concerning the mechanics and stats of this change, after you have cleared that from your system. Smile

    edit - nice post Zarnack


    One more nice empty posting. Do you really think everyone reads everything everyday on the forums ?

    I do not. This topic got my attention now.


    Edit: And i never posted the quote on this tread. So, you are making stuff up. Or found it in some older treads, but i am sure i never said that.
    HELLBOUNDMAN
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #1713 - 2012-09-19 21:19:16 UTC
    CCP

    read

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155540&find=unread


    for a better balancing solution, or at least part of a better balancing solution.
    Bloutok
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #1714 - 2012-09-19 21:22:43 UTC
    Onictus wrote:
    Bloutok wrote:
    Onictus wrote:
    Bloutok wrote:
    DJCouGaR wrote:
    What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now


    Yeah, entirely remove the Caldari race.

    No, i am not joking.

    One of the problem is that CCP is not giving us the entire picture. What will be done with all the cruiser sized ships ? BCs, BSs ..... Titans ?

    We have to decide if it's good with only a few pieces of the puzzle in place.

    If they nerf the ECM again. There will truly be nothing left.......



    So you missed the attack and support cruiser threads completely to come in here and say remove Caldari?

    Seriously?


    Nice empty posting, i will reply with a nice empty posting.

    empty posting.



    Since you can't be bothered to check the threads STICKIED IN THIS FORUM

    Don't let the door hit you in the ass.


    More empty posting. I hope some ISD is going to come around at some point.
    Grombutz
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #1715 - 2012-09-19 21:24:12 UTC
    Wow, it's actually true.

    Nerfing HM - damage by 20% (WTF?) seems quite hard. I just hope someone will notice that caldari is officialy useless once this hits TQ :D

    About the fury missiles in general - > Their damage application gets even worse? Anyone considered that it's quite hard to hit a BS - sized target for max damage with furys CM's/Rage torps allready? This will be even worse now... While the buff to precisions and the removal of drawbacks is good, making furys even more worse than they are now is quite, unnecessary. Drake is nerfed enough with plain 20% damage reduce, making it even worse through nerfing all fury missiles aswell is hilarious.

    Is there really a need to nerf all missiles, just because HM's are OP?

    In addition - with the TD changes, missiles will find even less use, especially because you can't really affect damage application like turrets can. Is this considered aswell?

    If you are going to nerf missiles to 7th Hell, I would also like to see missile SP reimburse...
    Sycotic Deninard
    Basgerin Pirate
    #1716 - 2012-09-19 21:24:12 UTC
    Well, if the heavy missiles get a damage and a range nerf as well as become effected by TD's, it will be the end of that weapon platform and possibly a lot of Caldari ships that use it. Period. End of story. The biggest complaint in game is the travel time of the missiles to reach its target. I dont see any real improvements in that direction. I'm also unclear how the proposed changes will effect faction missiles. Are they getting nerfed as well?

    A person that does'nt use his intelligence is no better than an animal that does'nt have any and thus are steaks on the table by choice and consent.

    Liang Nuren
    No Salvation
    Divine Damnation
    #1717 - 2012-09-19 21:27:13 UTC
    Michael Harari wrote:
    http://i.imgur.com/m8Aw9.jpg is a screenshot of several hundred heavy missiles flying at my stiletto.

    Also, Ive volleyed many an interceptor in my artycane.


    Going 400m/s you better warp the **** out.

    -Liang

    I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

    Onictus
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #1718 - 2012-09-19 21:28:04 UTC
    Bloutok wrote:


    More empty posting. I hope some ISD is going to come around at some point.



    Amusing response, you haven't biomassed yet?
    Michael Harari
    Genos Occidere
    HYDRA RELOADED
    #1719 - 2012-09-19 21:28:20 UTC
    Liang Nuren wrote:
    Michael Harari wrote:
    http://i.imgur.com/m8Aw9.jpg is a screenshot of several hundred heavy missiles flying at my stiletto.

    Also, Ive volleyed many an interceptor in my artycane.


    Going 400m/s you better warp the **** out.

    -Liang



    Clearly I fly an HML stiletto (screenshot was from a drake I think)
    Liang Nuren
    No Salvation
    Divine Damnation
    #1720 - 2012-09-19 21:28:36 UTC
    Zarnak Wulf wrote:
    Page 85. Wow. Well hopefully CCP Fozzie is still reading this. Big smile

    I'm concerned about Tracking Disruptors. Faction Warfare is frigate heavy. We've seen the use of alot of the new frigates there. And many if not most are using tracking disruptors. A condor with light missiles, long point, and two TD is common. An arty slasher set up the same way is too. Even Atrons and Executioners will fit a TD rather then a web.

    Now I've held my peace as I can build destroyers that lock farther and shoot farther then these small, frail frigates. I also know in the background that missile boats were very capable against them as they were immune to TD. But if that's not the case I can guarantee you that everyone and their mom will be fitting a TD. Some ideas:


    • Increase the fittings on the TD. Increase the fitting grid on specialized boats.

    • Take the TD for missiles one step further and seperate them for use via race/weapon type. I.E. - create a TD for hybrids, projectiles, lasers, missiles, and a weak general purpose one.

    • Nerf the TD and boost the specialized boats.



    Hee hee. I think Heretics pioneered that 2 TD Condor fit. We've moved on for the most part.

    -Liang

    Ed: Thanks Hahbs. :)

    I'm an idiot, don't mind me.