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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#121 - 2012-09-18 15:03:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time


The first one (tracking enhancers) will make missile boats absolute frigate murders. Just change your script and viola you can switch from long range to anti-frig point defense. A very bad decision.

The second one (TDs affect missiles) will make TDs the must have module for all frigates... having "must have" modules is very sad.
Way Rin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2012-09-18 15:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Way Rin
ссp primary target, missile launch - Start!

Sorry for my bad English...
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#123 - 2012-09-18 15:04:49 UTC
Meditril wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time


The first one (tracking enhancers) will make missile boats absolute frigate murders. Just change your script and viola you can switch from long range to anti-frig point defense. A very bad decision.

The second one (TDs affect missiles) will make TDs the must have module for all frigates... having "must have" modules is very sad.


Must have modules currently include a long / short point and a prop mod
Steelshine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-09-18 15:05:35 UTC
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:
I don't really understand why CCP continue to do this "pendulum" style of balancing. Make something overpowered -> useless -> overpowered -> useless.


Why use a scalpel when a hatchet feels so much more rewarding?
Emphyria
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2012-09-18 15:06:40 UTC
Don't forget to re-adjust TC/TE skill requirements into being more missile friendly if these ideas go through.
Rexorol
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#126 - 2012-09-18 15:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rexorol
A small request from CCP: Can you let us know which ships you approve of and feel are nicely balanced so I can just fly those?

I feel like I wasted 5 months of training with specializing in Caldari cruisers and HML's now. Yeah, I can take advantage of what I learned before the nerf, but if the hammer is going to come down this hard on both their damage and their range, there really isn't any point to flying Caldari missile cruisers/battlecruisers after this winter expansion.

Time to start speculating on what will be considered overpowered next, and get my skill training started before it happens.
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-09-18 15:08:23 UTC
I'm thinking too, that if the new Destoryers can scale up as TD/support/anti-tackle with medium turrets, we will see the T1 BC blobs have to go for some much more mixed doctrine.

Combined arms ftw.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-09-18 15:08:43 UTC
What are you ******* whining about for this owns

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#129 - 2012-09-18 15:10:31 UTC
I like the basic principle of TDs/TCs/TEs having an effect on missiles, but I don't think it should be the same modules. One of the things that make missiles strategically interesting is that you need a different set of tools to deal with them versus turret ships. It's part of EVE's eternal intel war. If you know your opponent is bringing missiles, you can bring something that would counter that but not guns (e.g., a firewall, smaller ships). If you know they're bringing guns, you can bring something that counters that but not missiles (TDs, fight from range).

In short, I'd prefer to see TD/TC/TE equivalents for missiles, but that are their own mods. That preserves all of the distinct strategic benefits of missiles while still allowing for missile users to adjust their range and "tracking" much like turret users, and to be countered the same way. Also, it makes more sense "flavor"-wise. Missiles don't have "tracking".
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#130 - 2012-09-18 15:10:42 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
and what about the heavy assault missile? doesn't it need a buff? noone uses them...


Well, thats because the HAM is supposed to be the high-damage, close range variant. Right now heavy missiles are a high-damage, long range variant. There's little reason to equip HAM's when you can get get almost the same DPS and much longer range. Scaling back the heavy missile DPS allows the HAM's to shine as the superior choice if you want maximum DPS. I predict that HAM's will become much more popular for Drakes, caracals, and other ships wanting to achieve optimum DPS in a fitting.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#131 - 2012-09-18 15:11:54 UTC
Schmell wrote:
Uhm...cough...did you check on armor cane fittings when you were working out that PG nerf? Because armor cane will be hit really hard by this, there wasn't so much free pg left even with 220mm guns

Aside this, pretty cool changes


1600mm + 220 IIs + Medium Neut IIs + MWD II without a single fitting mod is tight for you?

1600mm + 425 IIs + HML IIs + meta MWD also too tight?

Do you need to have free PG left even with all slots filled?

These minmatards Ugh

.
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#132 - 2012-09-18 15:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoarr
I can't believe no one has latched on to how ******* rockstar HAMs are going to be now. Most missile boats have a decent number of mid slots and the TC will ******* own.

As far as the PG nerf goes, I think it's a bit much especially for armor canes. I can understand where Fozzie is coming from, though.
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
#133 - 2012-09-18 15:13:34 UTC
Fozzie, will TDs affect only guided missiles or ALL missiles? If they impact even rockets, HAMs, and torps then I think that'd be a bit OP. It would also make your efforts in implicitly buffing HAMs pretty much futile; a single TD would halve its flight time and a HAM would go like 7km.
Merkal Aubauch
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#134 - 2012-09-18 15:15:45 UTC
Also TE affecting missiles is a steath buff for nagflar ;P
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#135 - 2012-09-18 15:16:11 UTC
I agree with the majority of the posters that the damage nerf on heavy missiles is too much, I agree on a damage nerf but 20% is honestly too much, I expected around 10% but double that really makes me feel like heavies would be almost useless.

I understand that TD/TC/TE effecting missiles somewhat compensates for the range nerf and yeah, I agree that spewing missiles to lock range with no range bonus was abit ridiculous too. But heavies never really had problem applying damage (only with fast frigs but nothing except small weapons can hit those), damage mods remain unchanged so a 20% hit to dps is huge and can't be compensated for.
Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2012-09-18 15:16:53 UTC
20% off the HMs seems a bit excessive to me, maybe try 10-15% and go from there.

The hurricane nerf looks good, and I think that that one is non-controversial enough that you might want to roll it out a bit early if you can.

Medium rails need looked at.
Way Rin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#137 - 2012-09-18 15:17:08 UTC
liquid space, slow missiles, what's next?

Sorry for my bad English...
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#138 - 2012-09-18 15:18:10 UTC
Quick question regarding TE/TC and TD effects:

Will they work with all/against all missiles or only the guided missiles?
Current rigs and skills that affect explosion size and explosion velocity are only affecting Light, Heavy and Cruise Missiles, so a clarification would be neat.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
zoturi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#139 - 2012-09-18 15:18:41 UTC
Thank you.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#140 - 2012-09-18 15:19:12 UTC
That's a really massive damage nerf to the heavy missile, especially with the range nerf as well.

20%? Really?

Even 10% would be pretty heavy; 20% is just going to render most of the medium missile boats nearly useless.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016