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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Haquer
Vorkuta Inc
#1241 - 2012-09-19 12:22:44 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Lev Arturis wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
A drake with perfect HML skills can now be tanked by a single rep myrm until the myrm runs out of cap boosters.



A Rail Brutix/Beam Harbinger with perfect gunnery skills can still be tanked by a single rep myrm until the myrm runs out of cap boosters.


Er....no it cant?


Could you provide sources? My EFT's with 3x gyro/mag/bcu/heat sink show that all the platforms do similar or less damage than HML's and certainly don't have the same ranges with high DPS ammo.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1242 - 2012-09-19 12:23:02 UTC
When did arty canes have zero tank?
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1243 - 2012-09-19 12:23:02 UTC
Merkal Aubauch wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
Daneel Trevize wrote:
Hmm, doesn't this missile/TE change mean TEs really need considering for a nerf/reduction of the last buff they got?



-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)

^_^ means heavy missiles will have even less damage.lets compare this

right now a drake has about 450 dps`ish with fury and 5 t2 drones
compared to a hurricane that has well over 800 dps with t2 drones :D

gg ccp



ham drake up to 599dps vs AC cane 633 up to around 700

hml drake around 495 dps vs ARTY cane around 361 dps


not much differance

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#1244 - 2012-09-19 12:23:02 UTC
Laura Dexx wrote:

What do you mean I have to make choices? I can't have tank, range, sustained damage and alpha damage in one ship anymore? Cry


Of course you can.


For the next three months at least.Twisted
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#1245 - 2012-09-19 12:23:53 UTC
Laura Dexx wrote:
Inggroth wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:

A myrm cant tank an artycane on a single rep. Artycanes outdamage drakes as they are now AND are faster AND have a larger drone bay AND still have small neuts.

Artycanes also have zero tank.
Its called balance.


What do you mean I have to make choices? I can't have tank, range, sustained damage and alpha damage in one ship anymore? Cry


Artycanes have 91% of the total ehp of a podla drake, along with more speed and like 60% the signature radius.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#1246 - 2012-09-19 12:25:31 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
War Kitten wrote:


I'm not suggesting that at all.

I'm suggesting you make comparisons that are meaningful. Yes, scourge missiles project farther than their counterpart in damage for turrets. But those graphs cherry pick some of the worst DPS turret ammo and compare them to the 2nd best HML ammo, simply to try and compare range projections.

Compare Tech II long range ammo across the board.
Compare Faction DPS ammo across the board.
Compare Tech II high DPS "tracking" ammo across the board.

Then compare the results of each of those graphs to find the balance. Don't cherry pick your data.



You keep saying this but I think you're confused. There is no T2 long range ammo for HMLs. You're thinking of Javelin missiles which are only usable in HAMs.

The T2 missiles for HMLs are:
Precision Heavy Missile for taking down frigates.
Fury Heavy Missile for taking down battlecruisers and up.

Both have lower range than their T1 equivalent. Fury HMs are not far behind and actually have an even better dps/range ratio than CN Scourge HMs. So no, there is no cherry picking going on. The discrepancy really is that large.


Aww crap, you're right. I was thinking of T2 HAM ammo.

I guess if we're supposed to think of HMLs as railguns, the nerfs make sense... and they'll still be better than railguns.

But then, wouldn't it make sense for HAMs to require *less* powergrid than HMLs now too? Every other weapon system has the short range/DPS platform require less powergrid. But HAMs require more than HMLs.




I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1247 - 2012-09-19 12:26:50 UTC
hey ccp,can i get back all my caldari spaceshit and missile skills reimbursed into skillpoints so i can invest them in something usefull after the nerf.thanks :D
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#1248 - 2012-09-19 12:27:47 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Laura Dexx wrote:
Inggroth wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:

A myrm cant tank an artycane on a single rep. Artycanes outdamage drakes as they are now AND are faster AND have a larger drone bay AND still have small neuts.

Artycanes also have zero tank.
Its called balance.


What do you mean I have to make choices? I can't have tank, range, sustained damage and alpha damage in one ship anymore? Cry


Artycanes have 91% of the total ehp of a podla drake, along with more speed and like 60% the signature radius.


Also, thats not to say the artycane isnt a wholly outdated platform nowadays, with the autocannon nado taking its place.
Laura Dexx
Now Look What You've Made Me Do
#1249 - 2012-09-19 12:28:13 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Laura Dexx wrote:
Inggroth wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:

A myrm cant tank an artycane on a single rep. Artycanes outdamage drakes as they are now AND are faster AND have a larger drone bay AND still have small neuts.

Artycanes also have zero tank.
Its called balance.


What do you mean I have to make choices? I can't have tank, range, sustained damage and alpha damage in one ship anymore? Cry


Artycanes have 91% of the total ehp of a podla drake, along with more speed and like 60% the signature radius.


The drake has better range and more efficiently applies its damage, and it has a lot of bonus slots for E-War (in the PODLA set-up, at least). Anyways, with MWD active, your signature radius blooms past anything that would be considered obstructive to battleship or dreadnought-sized weaponry anyways, so that's hardly a point.
Shokre O'Corwi
The Squid Squad
#1250 - 2012-09-19 12:28:41 UTC
Looks like I'm still the only person who took the time to read the whole first post...
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1251 - 2012-09-19 12:28:44 UTC
Recoil IV wrote:
hey ccp,can i get back all my caldari spaceshit and missile skills reimbursed into skillpoints so i can invest them in something usefull after the nerf.thanks :D


invest in ishtar and drones thats still 800+ atm untill drones get a nerfbat too

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Signal11th
#1252 - 2012-09-19 12:30:26 UTC
Laura Dexx wrote:
Inggroth wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:

A myrm cant tank an artycane on a single rep. Artycanes outdamage drakes as they are now AND are faster AND have a larger drone bay AND still have small neuts.

Artycanes also have zero tank.
Its called balance.


What do you mean I have to make choices? I can't have tank, range, sustained damage and alpha damage in one ship anymore? Cry



And they you go, in one ship...so nerf the ships not the missiles.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1253 - 2012-09-19 12:32:44 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
hey ccp,can i get back all my caldari spaceshit and missile skills reimbursed into skillpoints so i can invest them in something usefull after the nerf.thanks :D


invest in ishtar and drones thats still 800+ atm untill drones get a nerfbat too


sad,but true.i can already smell riots in jita just like when cq was introduced :D
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#1254 - 2012-09-19 12:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ihcn
The tears in this thread are so ******* delicious.

"bawwww this game is LITERALLY ruined because i might have to change my drake/hurricane fit"

People like you are the main danger to EVE. Shaking op the status quo of ship fitting is an objectively good thing to do for the game. It means that, for a short while, the creative, innovative, intelligent players come up with new fits and new strategies and they're successful. At the same time, the people who just look up the FOTM fit on battleclinic and copy/paste it are lost for a while as they try to fit a square peg into a round hole by using their old fits even though those old fits aren't good anymore.

So, if you're an intelligent player, you should love this, because you have an opportunity to innovate and create new strategies. And if you're not, well i guess you're going to wait until someone smarter than you posts a fit on battleclinc for you to copy.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#1255 - 2012-09-19 12:32:50 UTC
Laura Dexx wrote:


The drake has better range and more efficiently applies its damage.

Against some things, sure.

PetersmithII
Ilusions 2 play
#1256 - 2012-09-19 12:35:05 UTC
Haquer wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Inggroth wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
A drake with perfect HML skills can now be tanked by a single rep myrm until the myrm runs out of cap boosters.

Which is exactly as it should be.
Beam Harbinger, Rail Brutix and Artycane arent exactly dps monsters too.

And HAM Drake will be even better post HM nerf.


A myrm cant tank an artycane on a single rep. Artycanes outdamage drakes as they are now AND are faster AND have a larger drone bay AND still have small neuts.


Heavy Missiles are not a close range, high DPS platform.

They are just like artillery/rails/beams in that they are high alpha low DPS.


eh... so all other races shoot max range 60+ km becose this will be new max range of drake with HM... i think they all can shoot on more then 100km+ why lower range if they are suposed to be long range weapon why dont herf only dmg asi say up its no fair its just stupid thing to do against drake blobs ..
and there are too many ways how to deastroy missles + TDs + u can hit target ehn u are at warp all other shipps do dmg until they dont warp out..
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1257 - 2012-09-19 12:35:31 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Oh yeah, anyone want to talk about the double wammy of ratting in the south where rats Tracking disrupt and spew defender like no other. Guess Missiles are worthless ratting platforms through and through and through down there now.

Good thing they haven't ****** over drones yet.


Of course not, CCP thinks a blanket change to a staple weapon system will of course only affect pvp. PVE has not been considered in this at all.
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#1258 - 2012-09-19 12:37:07 UTC
PetersmithII wrote:

eh... so all other races shoot max range 60+ km becose this will be new max range of drake with HM... i think they all can shoot on more then 100km+ why lower range if they are suposed to be long range weapon why dont herf only dmg asi say up its no fair its just stupid thing to do against drake blobs ..
and there are too many ways how to deastroy missles + TDs + u can hit target ehn u are at warp all other shipps do dmg until they dont warp out..

protip: when you type like this nobody can understand you
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#1259 - 2012-09-19 12:37:36 UTC
Also, this is just nerfing last year's meta. Even podla doesnt fly drakes anymore.
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#1260 - 2012-09-19 12:38:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I'm Down wrote:
Oh yeah, anyone want to talk about the double wammy of ratting in the south where rats Tracking disrupt and spew defender like no other. Guess Missiles are worthless ratting platforms through and through and through down there now.

Good thing they haven't ****** over drones yet.


Of course not, CCP thinks a blanket change to a staple weapon system will of course only affect pvp. PVE has not been considered in this at all.

different ships are good at different things who would have ******* guessed