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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#1161 - 2012-09-19 10:45:11 UTC
Rita May wrote:
uh, one thinghy i nearly forgot:

like the Carebear i am i want to ask if all the NPCs are going to get some "defender-turrets"?
Because, like how it is now missles against NPCs already receive an "applied" damage reduction that turrets do not?

cu


they have for years its called tracking its a high end feature in eve that checks if you guns hit or not unlike missils that have this always hit thing going for them
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1162 - 2012-09-19 10:45:24 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:

Did you seriously just post a 10mn ab 6 launcher setup after i specifically told you not to bother posting a 6 launcher setup? Yes they use that...against arty maelstorms because they cant track abing cruisers for **** and tengus have a good tank. Not because HMLs do trollolo dps.
And this fit is outdated anyway. current apoc navy doctrine smashse this.


This from a guy who expects close range damge from a long range weapon.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1163 - 2012-09-19 10:47:28 UTC
Salmon Ella wrote:


See again you're for the nerf for HML but everytime you counter an argument you use bonuses or lack of bonuses on the ship to say why its a good idea.


If you look at the base stats of the weapon after the change you will see that HML are on par with the other weapons (slightly better DPS at range acctually)
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1164 - 2012-09-19 10:47:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:

Did you seriously just post a 10mn ab 6 launcher setup after i specifically told you not to bother posting a 6 launcher setup? Yes they use that...against arty maelstorms because they cant track abing cruisers for **** and tengus have a good tank. Not because HMLs do trollolo dps.
And this fit is outdated anyway. current apoc navy doctrine smashse this.


This from a guy who expects close range damge from a long range weapon.

No, that post is from me. The guy expecting close range damage from a long range weapon was you by stating a tengu does 800+dps, which it does not.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1165 - 2012-09-19 10:49:37 UTC
Quote:
teir 3 BCs have a soft underbelly that can be exploited by fast cruisers and arty canes high alpha produce a similar DPS to the other long range weapons so its not like the are going to be sitting on a throne made from melted down railboats on a hill of drake skulls.


Not all that soft, nados in particular. The tracking is good enough that a gang of 3 nados/talos should easily beat a greater number of cruisers or even hacs.

Nobody will use medium rail ships.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1166 - 2012-09-19 10:50:36 UTC
Salmon Ella wrote:


But again you cant have everything equal, it doesn't work.


You can have everything balanced. HML doing around the same damage and getting a similar range as the other long range weapons is much better.
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1167 - 2012-09-19 10:50:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Salmon Ella wrote:


See again you're for the nerf for HML but everytime you counter an argument you use bonuses or lack of bonuses on the ship to say why its a good idea.


If you look at the base stats of the weapon after the change you will see that HML are on par with the other weapons (slightly better DPS at range acctually)

Pulse lasers have more optimal than hybrids and autocannons, nerf that to bring it in line.
Arties have too much alpha compared to other systems, reduce it to bring it in line with other systems.
Hybrids do way too much damage at 1km compared to other systems, reduce it to bring it in line with other systems.

You see where this goes?
Dani Lizardov
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#1168 - 2012-09-19 10:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dani Lizardov
Epic Caldary buff

HM are not the only Missiles you can use on your Drake or Tengu.

Current HAM Tengu can do 900+ dps at 40km...
Current HAM Drake has 600 dps + 92k ehp + command link

Now add the following:
Quote:

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar

-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time


HM nerf is a good thing. It makes HM on the same level as the other mid sized long range weapon platforms.
It you want more range you need to sacrifice tank!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1169 - 2012-09-19 10:52:04 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:


No, that post is from me. The guy expecting close range damage from a long range weapon was you by stating a tengu does 800+dps, which it does not.


It does with the correct weapons.
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1170 - 2012-09-19 10:54:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Salmon Ella wrote:


But again you cant have everything equal, it doesn't work.


You can have everything balanced. HML doing around the same damage and getting a similar range as the other long range weapons is much better.


The reason they have more _base_ damage because other systems in the first place is that they suffer heavy penalties from anything that is not a standing still battleship and which, unlike with turrets, you cant compensate for by flying your ship in a certain way. The resulting real damage that is applied is almost never 100% and can be as low as 10% or less, not being able to break a frigates passive shield recharge.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1171 - 2012-09-19 10:55:10 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:

Pulse lasers have more optimal than hybrids and autocannons, nerf that to bring it in line.
Arties have too much alpha compared to other systems, reduce it to bring it in line with other systems.
Hybrids do way too much damage at 1km compared to other systems, reduce it to bring it in line with other systems.

You see where this goes?


Yes, we have balance now that HML are on par with those weapons. Each of them do the same job differently and are all viable. (aside from the blasters which are a close range weapon and shouldnt be compared to long range guns.)
xUnlimitedx
Doomheim
#1172 - 2012-09-19 10:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: xUnlimitedx
Dear CCP,

change the explosion velocity and explosion radius from the long range with shortrange missiles.

Shortrange guns have good tracking good dps bad range
Longrange guns have bad tracking bad dps awesome range

The range nerf of hm's is ok.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1173 - 2012-09-19 10:56:31 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:


The reason they have more _base_ damage because other systems in the first place is that they suffer heavy penalties from anything that is not a standing still battleship and which, unlike with turrets, you cant compensate for by flying your ship in a certain way. The resulting real damage that is applied is almost never 100% and can be as low as 10% or less, not being able to break a frigates passive shield recharge.


Yea thats not going to wash, HML will hit frigates fairly well and turrets suffer from a similar thing called tracking.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1174 - 2012-09-19 10:57:00 UTC
Quote:
Each of them do the same job differently and are all viable.


Medium beams and rails are truly awe inspiring weapons. Let me tell you how I don't think it's hilarious when I come across a rail brutix.
Naara Elein
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1175 - 2012-09-19 10:57:54 UTC
HAMs for damage, HMLs for projection/alpha. Nice to see this fixed. Good call ccp, don't back down!

It might appear like the Caracal, Nighthawk and the Cerberus will suffer badly from this. But those hulls will undergo changes too, surely nobody have missed the ongoing ship revamp? The new Caracal proposal can be found here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155001&find=unread and it has some extra low slots for BCU's and a hullbonus to ROF (no more just kinetic damage). It's still a long range ship but it looks competitive to the other cruisers imho.

The Drake is not a small BS. Well, it is right now actually, but it really shouldn't be because the other tier 1 and 2 BC's are not small BSes. When the Drake is tought of as a small BS, then this nerf feels like a slap in the face, because now it can no longer do BS-ish dps with BS range. But the change is not unfair. The change only seem unfair if the Drake is assumed to be a small BS. But it isn't a BS, it is a BC. And don't compare the Drake to the tier 3 BC's, those are a different breed.

The nerfbat did only a glancing blow to the Tengu. It still does a lot of dps and tanks like something from Jove space. But perhaps it is enough for the other T3's to catch up a little.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1176 - 2012-09-19 11:00:28 UTC
most im seeing is nullfags wanting the missle nerf cause they are sick of dieing to em. people arnt even listening to the lowsec/fw and highsec missle users which are not too meny especially in low which is pritty much over 75% gunnery users

dont let nullseccers dictate what every one else should use!

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1177 - 2012-09-19 11:02:08 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Quote:
Each of them do the same job differently and are all viable.


Let me tell you how I don't think it's hilarious when I come across a rail brutix.


Welcome to the wonderous world of brutix fitting issues. Hopefully this will be fixed when BC get their turn at teircide.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1178 - 2012-09-19 11:02:18 UTC
Mr John Smith wrote:
Heavy Missiles! The new Failguns! I meen railguns.


Also, bad luck Caracal, get buffed by tericide, weapon systems nerfed by CCP next week.


but seriously, the range nerf to HML's was warranted, they are a cruiser based weapon after all and the range on some missile boats is pretty ridiculous, but 20% damage? They're already one of the lowest dps weapon systems around. You're over doing it, please re-think this one; talk with the CSM about it, please.


Also, with this boost to tracking disrupter's could you consider a very slight reduction in base stats? To bring them in line with other E-War which is only very effective on bonus'd ships.



agree the range nerf is fine
the flightspeed buff is fine
the removal of t2 ammo negatives, fine also.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1179 - 2012-09-19 11:03:47 UTC
Don't think that's going to change anything. Well, as far as a rail brutix goes. Blaster ones should be really good if they buff them.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1180 - 2012-09-19 11:06:31 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Don't think that's going to change anything. Well, as far as a rail brutix goes. Blaster ones should be really good if they buff them.


have you seen some of the tix fits? those thigns are nuts 2km/s full tackle like 1000dps (OH iirc) like 60k to 70k EHP

as for rail-tix never tried them. but i agree with other people medium beams, medium rails need a buff. NOT A HM nerf!!

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]