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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Mick Fightmaster
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#1001 - 2012-09-19 04:35:10 UTC
The hurricane is already a glass cannon....why make it suck at DPS too?

Leave our 425 neut canes alone. Focus on the drake
Wpolo
Perkone
Caldari State
#1002 - 2012-09-19 04:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Wpolo
CCP u r not seeing it clear.
Sure u have to nerf drake bloobs. But nerf HML... the only working missile. By doing it u nerf Cerberus, Caracal, nightawk, Damnation, Tengu n Legion.
The range nerf is necessary. The DPS for sure it isnt, I will explain.

HML sig radius = 161,25m This alone means dps REDUCE to 75% to hit cruisers hulls. With sig ex = 145,5m/s means that any moving BC will avoid another part of the dmg.
Thats why A-HACs r the counter for drake fleets.
Futher more thats why torps dont work in PvP.

So missile are terrible and the only thing that they have is range.

The TD is the g* F*** C****** in the face. As sig radius n explosion isnt enough.

To do the theory dmg u have to TP + web ur targets........ face it thats 2 med modules + the 2 low......


So at the end of the day missile will be useless.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#1003 - 2012-09-19 04:40:46 UTC
Wpolo wrote:

So at the end of the day missile will be useless.


I will buy all of your worthless missile characters at 1 million ISK per million SP in missiles and Caldari. TYIA.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Wpolo
Perkone
Caldari State
#1004 - 2012-09-19 04:41:09 UTC
Kegstand Mcfarland wrote:

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles
-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, we'll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Improve bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase the severity of penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly


20% reduction in damage for a ship that does crap damage already...BS absolute BS. Range reduction in rage assaults I assume so making hams work even worse then they already did BS absolute BS. Tracking disruption great should effect all weapons.

SO are you folks planning to nerf the damage on the other 3 gun types because if not this is a complete load of steaming dogcrap.

100% with u
Wpolo
Perkone
Caldari State
#1005 - 2012-09-19 04:42:21 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Wpolo wrote:

So at the end of the day missile will be useless.


I will buy all of your worthless missile characters at 1 million ISK per million SP in missiles and Caldari. TYIA.

-Liang



Why i will sell it?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#1006 - 2012-09-19 04:45:15 UTC
Wpolo wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Wpolo wrote:

So at the end of the day missile will be useless.


I will buy all of your worthless missile characters at 1 million ISK per million SP in missiles and Caldari. TYIA.

-Liang


Why i will sell it?


Because all missiles are worthless, of course! Of course, you could just be blowing hot air up everyone's ass about how bad off missiles are going to be... but MMO players would never resort to extreme hyperbole to game game balance in favor of extreme imbalance in their favor.

No, never.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Don Cunningham
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1007 - 2012-09-19 04:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Don Cunningham
I've only been playing a month and a half so it's not a big a loss to me as it is for people more invested in these particular SP's, but still, a month is a decent amount of time. Given I've taken the majority of that time to specialize in HML Drake tank to eventually run solo Lv. 4 missions as my primary source of income and the fact that these changes may completely thwart my plans, can players be reimbursed SP to reallocate to something you deem isn't OP? The trio of nerfs is too drastic: Range/Damage/TD effects... I can agree the range is a bit much. But to require me to come in closer to attack on top of reducing the mediocre damage output on top of possibly compromising my damage w/ TD is a recipe for failure. Is it your intent to kill off the general build? If so, please tell us what you think is ok so I can invest my SP into something that won't get jacked off on later? I know this is subject to change, but it feels like time wasted.
Wpolo
Perkone
Caldari State
#1008 - 2012-09-19 04:50:34 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Wpolo wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Wpolo wrote:

So at the end of the day missile will be useless.


I will buy all of your worthless missile characters at 1 million ISK per million SP in missiles and Caldari. TYIA.

-Liang


Why i will sell it?


Because all missiles are worthless, of course! Of course, you could just be blowing hot air up everyone's ass about how bad off missiles are going to be... but MMO players would never resort to extreme hyperbole to game game balance in favor of extreme imbalance in their favor.

No, never.

-Liang

Seens that u r the one blowing hot air in the rear guard.

read my post again...
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#1009 - 2012-09-19 04:56:16 UTC
Everyone kinda missed this, but Sanshas is going to be almost a big a ***** as Guristas after this =P, I've been TD-ed down to 10km optimal on MPL II Scorch from 50km, cruise already needed 3 rigs and a painter to deal damage to cruisers, now Sanshas will ruin missile boats.
I'm Down
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#1010 - 2012-09-19 04:56:44 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

A few comments:
- lmgtfy.com?q=1000+dps+tengu
- http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/55448-High-dps-enough-tank-medium-price-tengu.html (Not how I'd fit it, but it's servicable and I've used a similar fit)
- If you're talking about ratting, make sure that your reload DPS is unchecked. This is also generally true for PVP.
- You straight up said the Bellicose gets 40-50k EHP and 550 DPS. You constantly shift goalposts by using T2 rigs and T3 bonuses for your fits but insist that nobody else can when comparing ****. CCP Fozzie straight ripped you a new ******* for being the shitstain that you are.
- If you're really yaay: what the **** why are you so ******* bad now? Have I really come so far in this game that I've surpassed you so dramatically in general ship knowledge?

-Liang


No, I said a Belicose can get 20-30k ehp and 550 dps. I said it can still get 40-50k ehp with around a 500 dps build which was 2 bcus, a 3% damage implant, and nothing else special...... I realize American schools are not teaching good reading skills, but jesus, that's pretty awful.


Quote:
#216 Posted: 2012.09.14 19:24 | Report | Edited by: ISD TYPE40
I'm sorry, but if you think it's a Paper thin setup on a Belicose because the 4 lows were dedicated to dps, you don't get the point. You can still get this thing upwards of 40,000-50,000 ehp with a bonus ship and still around 500 dps.

I mean do I literally have to theory craft every fit for you just to show you the variety of ways that this is not a good idea?

575 powergrid +25% skill + 15% RC + 10% ancillary = 909 PG. That's easily enough to fit 2 large shield extenders, and a Damage control + 2 slots left for resistance and rigs to boost shielding quite high. Added to the fact that you have high drone + HAM damage you can get 475 DPS just with skills alone. Add in overheating, implants, or other variety of options that ******* rich *people* like me might do, you can see how this quickly gets OP....
Aaron Greil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1011 - 2012-09-19 04:57:59 UTC
well, this has devolved quickly into a **** toss.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#1012 - 2012-09-19 04:58:01 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

A few comments:
- lmgtfy.com?q=1000+dps+tengu
- http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/55448-High-dps-enough-tank-medium-price-tengu.html (Not how I'd fit it, but it's servicable and I've used a similar fit)
- If you're talking about ratting, make sure that your reload DPS is unchecked. This is also generally true for PVP.
- You straight up said the Bellicose gets 40-50k EHP and 550 DPS. You constantly shift goalposts by using T2 rigs and T3 bonuses for your fits but insist that nobody else can when comparing ****. CCP Fozzie straight ripped you a new ******* for being the shitstain that you are.
- If you're really yaay: what the **** why are you so ******* bad now? Have I really come so far in this game that I've surpassed you so dramatically in general ship knowledge?

-Liang


No, I said a Belicose can get 20-30k ehp and 550 dps. I said it can still get 40-50k ehp with around a 500 dps build which was 2 bcus, a 3% damage implant, and nothing else special...... I realize American schools are not teaching good reading skills, but jesus, that's pretty awful.


Quote:
#216 Posted: 2012.09.14 19:24 | Report | Edited by: ISD TYPE40
I'm sorry, but if you think it's a Paper thin setup on a Belicose because the 4 lows were dedicated to dps, you don't get the point. You can still get this thing upwards of 40,000-50,000 ehp with a bonus ship and still around 500 dps.

I mean do I literally have to theory craft every fit for you just to show you the variety of ways that this is not a good idea?

575 powergrid +25% skill + 15% RC + 10% ancillary = 909 PG. That's easily enough to fit 2 large shield extenders, and a Damage control + 2 slots left for resistance and rigs to boost shielding quite high. Added to the fact that you have high drone + HAM damage you can get 475 DPS just with skills alone. Add in overheating, implants, or other variety of options that ******* rich *people* like me might do, you can see how this quickly gets OP....


Go back to that thread. Post fits. Romney isn't doing enough ******** **** today and I need good laughs.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#1013 - 2012-09-19 04:58:33 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
- If you're really yaay: what the **** why are you so ******* bad now? Have I really come so far in this game that I've surpassed you so dramatically in general ship knowledge?


He really is yaay.

No sig.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#1014 - 2012-09-19 04:59:31 UTC
Aaron Greil wrote:
well, this has devolved quickly into a **** toss.


This was expected. CCP nerfs ships that have been overpowered so long that when people join the game they're told "train X because it is literally the only thing worth training". Is it any surprise that people would be butthurt over the nerf? The only way to fix these things kinds of problems is to nerf faster. It's a delicate balance though, because you have to be careful not to nerf before the metagame can adapt - and frankly that can take quite a long time!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
I'm Down
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#1015 - 2012-09-19 05:06:32 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Aaron Greil wrote:
well, this has devolved quickly into a **** toss.


This was expected. CCP nerfs ships that have been overpowered so long that when people join the game they're told "train X because it is literally the only thing worth training". Is it any surprise that people would be butthurt over the nerf? The only way to fix these things kinds of problems is to nerf faster. It's a delicate balance though, because you have to be careful not to nerf before the metagame can adapt - and frankly that can take quite a long time!

-Liang


Yeah, and nobody see's the problem with TD changes, the huge buffts to fitting LR weapon systems on other cruisers, the unneeded missile damage reduction, and the lack of addressing ships that were the cause of 90% of the problems that were blamed specifically on missiles.

Kinda like nobody saw the horrible concepts for titans and capitals all these years, the horrible 0.0 mechanics, the horrible proliferation effects, the horrible inflationary pressures, etc, etc, etc.

Watching CCP dig it's own grave has been sad over the years.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#1016 - 2012-09-19 05:11:50 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Aaron Greil wrote:
well, this has devolved quickly into a **** toss.


This was expected. CCP nerfs ships that have been overpowered so long that when people join the game they're told "train X because it is literally the only thing worth training". Is it any surprise that people would be butthurt over the nerf? The only way to fix these things kinds of problems is to nerf faster. It's a delicate balance though, because you have to be careful not to nerf before the metagame can adapt - and frankly that can take quite a long time!

-Liang


Yeah, and nobody see's the problem with TD changes, the huge buffts to fitting LR weapon systems on other cruisers, the unneeded missile damage reduction, and the lack of addressing ships that were the cause of 90% of the problems that were blamed specifically on missiles.

Kinda like nobody saw the horrible concepts for titans and capitals all these years, the horrible 0.0 mechanics, the horrible proliferation effects, the horrible inflationary pressures, etc, etc, etc.

Watching CCP dig it's own grave has been sad over the years.


TDs are almost certain to be OP, but if we're making TEs and TCs affect missiles it's not exactly an unexpected move. Furthermore, suppose that you have unlimited fittings on the Beam Harbinger and Legion: how would you go about making them compete with the HML Drake and Tengu?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#1017 - 2012-09-19 05:15:28 UTC
Woohoo, this will be awesome, can't wait for winter.

To all the cryer's see you in hi sec stations with +5 impants on now. hurray

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1018 - 2012-09-19 05:20:48 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
TDs are almost certain to be OP, but if we're making TEs and TCs affect missiles it's not exactly an unexpected move. Furthermore, suppose that you have unlimited fittings on the Beam Harbinger and Legion: how would you go about making them compete with the HML Drake and Tengu?

-Liang

I'm still scratching my head here on why a more mild nerf to HMLs coupled with a buff to damage of the other 3 long range types is for some reason completely out of the question.

I'm calling for a buff to three weapons types to actually make more playing styles viable, as opposed to "waaaah HMLs are OP, look at how bad these other weapons are in comparison!"

Not saying YOU are saying that, but if the goal is bringing them in line then shouldn't the underutilized weapons systems be buffed?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Aaron Greil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1019 - 2012-09-19 05:27:50 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Aaron Greil wrote:
well, this has devolved quickly into a **** toss.


This was expected. CCP nerfs ships that have been overpowered so long that when people join the game they're told "train X because it is literally the only thing worth training". Is it any surprise that people would be butthurt over the nerf? The only way to fix these things kinds of problems is to nerf faster. It's a delicate balance though, because you have to be careful not to nerf before the metagame can adapt - and frankly that can take quite a long time!

-Liang


Yeah, and nobody see's the problem with TD changes, the huge buffts to fitting LR weapon systems on other cruisers, the unneeded missile damage reduction, and the lack of addressing ships that were the cause of 90% of the problems that were blamed specifically on missiles.

Kinda like nobody saw the horrible concepts for titans and capitals all these years, the horrible 0.0 mechanics, the horrible proliferation effects, the horrible inflationary pressures, etc, etc, etc.

Watching CCP dig it's own grave has been sad over the years.


You know, you don't have to play EVE if you don't want to?
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1020 - 2012-09-19 05:32:05 UTC
Even as a player who loathes flying drakes and tengu's and has to fight drake blobs constantly, I think these are a bit harsh.

Start out with wither the damage or the range nerf and see how that works first.