Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I see it as balance for Caldari having the smallest drone bays in the game - missiles *have* (well ok they don't have to but they should) to do at least decent damage to smaller vessels. In my (somewhat limited) experience with HAMs they just don't do that.

As some one else posted I have a feeling these changes will merely bring a new age of "Amarr supremacy". *Shrugs* It's CCP's game and they can make what ever changes they wish.

It seems that after this my armor canes will be rather borked, so I'll just have to trade them in for harby's when I can be arsed to do it. (though they are fugly in comparison to the cane even after the v3 nerf to their looks) I just find it funny that they are getting gutted due to a fit setup I never favored.

So I guess my feed back is this, I think the PG nerf on the cane for an armor tanker might be extreme, but if other fits are causing problems because of it so be it. You can't keep everyone happy all the time. And if my faded frown means 3 other people smile then that is what you should do.

As for the HML changes, by all means go full speed ahead. Misery loves company after all.

On the other hand, I avoidance tank gun ships all the time. You literally cannot do that with missiles unless you go so damn fast that the missiles never ever hit you (~6.5-7km/s)

-Liang

Ed: And if you do this, you had better be in a missile ship yourself, because even frigate guns aren't gonna hit **** at that speed.

Well... no you're right to reach the zero damage threshold you have to be moving pretty dang quick but the damage reduction gains for even a moderate speed are pretty substantial for some (most?) of the missile family (cruise missiles, torps, and, relevant to this conversation, HAMs).

Yes, nobody fits t2 modules and a few meta 4s and + 3% implants to pvp.. but everyone fits an estamels BCU to their pve ship... you are genius.

I guess I never kill Arazu's and Rapiers (daily) that have 3-500 mil pvp fits or faction fit frigs, or any of that mess, no no, never happens. And heavens to Betsy I swear nobody in their right mind would ever fit cruiser sized t2 rigs.... that 30 mil is just too damn expensive.

And bullshit you're doing 1000dps w/o doing that, b/c you can't get above 900 w/o doing either that or overheating... and even then, you're real damage is nowhere near that much after defenders, range issues, and speed/sig dmg reductions.

You need to learn to fit a ship, seriously. Every fit that you have posted has been a **** fit and you've lied about the stats. Furthermore, it's not as though it's particularly hard - someone earlier in this thread was talking about a straight replacement of HML -> HAM and getting 988 out of their current fit.

-Liang

There was a reason I trained all races frigs, cruisers, and bs to 5. And all races t3 sub systems to 5. In additions to training up to use all tech 2 weapons systems.

There ALWAYS seems to be something getting nerfed, and it's the best way to make sure you can fly whatever fotm is until it gets nerfed not long after.

Though, is this really a good thing?

HA! I caught up. 5:30AM as I'm writing this, so bear with me if I typo etc.

The changes proposed to both please and terrify me. I've known since way back that a nerf would be coming for the Drake, much like the Horsemen would be coming after us at the time of the Apocalypse. Still, kinda sad to see my old faithful missioning boat need a refit.

TD on missiles? That's wrong on so many levels it's not funny. I can agree to the function, but not on a module called Tracking Disrupter. Self-guided missiles get their order at launch. I would wager it's not given coordinates, but rather other identifiable references. Create a module that disrupt the signal the missile is given at launch. Same for TE/TC.

My first reaction was "20% less damage and 25% less range? Are you nuts?!" but I got over that. As has been said in this thread, TE/TC can help with that to some extent.
My Drake puts out 301 dps (not perfectly fit, I know) with CN Scourge, 262 with T1 Scourge, 210 with T1 Inferno. Sans drones. No, it can't break the tank on all L4 BSs without it's drones. In fact, if I lose a single drone in WC4 I go back to station and pick one up. With a 20% damage reduction it will likely be the end of non-faction ammo Drakes in L4. But, that isn't a bad thing, as long as there are viable alternatives, viable missile boat alternatives.

The old rule of thumb was frig/dessie for L1, cruiser for L2, BC for L3, and BS for L4. I have friends running L3s in dessies without major problems. Cruisers were obsolete for a while, but the new changes should bring them back. Let's see where we end up. We might abide by that old rule again.
I wonder though, have cruisers been balanced for how missiles act now, or how missiles will act? Perhaps it's better to wait until BCs have been revamped as well before going at the weapon systems used by both cruiser and BC?

An important part to remember is that a sweeping change to HM will not only affect Drake and Tengu, but a whole lot of other ships, the Caracal (never liked that one), Cerberus, NH for example. Neither one stellar and I think I can count on my fingers the number of those that flew in ATX, perhaps I need my toes as well. HAM versions of them may be getting a buff, depends on the numbers we got from TE/TC, but the HM versions will be losing out.

The NH has been mentioned a few times. I'm glad I aimed at a HAM NH. Astarte with all Vs and the setup my alt is using for 3-man missions will put out 718 at 8km + 18km (fall-off) range. NH with all Vs will manage 555 up to 17km. Yes, please, to HAM buff.

As for skills. I'd wager roughly the same amount of time/SP is needed to max out missile skills for, say, HML as for Arty. The difference is that I, as a missile invested pilot, won't have anything to fall back on or easily train to in case my primary weapon system is nerfed. The amount of training needed to add Beams for an Arty trained pilot is not the same as the time needed for a HML trained pilot. The support skills are already in place.
I have WU5, AWU4, and then 85k SP in Gunnery. Long way to go to a well-fit Vulture.

As for the insane debate on damage application between turrets and missiles. They work differently, different aspects apply. Steady damage vs miss/barely scratch/hit/well-aimed/wrecking for one. THEY CAN'T BE PROPERLY COMPARED. We can try to even the difference, OP is one idea, we don't yet know if it's the right choice.

I'm certain I forgot some parts of what I had planned to write, but I just heard my neighbour leave for work, so I'm off to bed.
Fly safe.

Oh! One more thing I would like to see to help balance out these nerfs... please add a bonus to light missile damage to the Drake. There aren't a lot of ships able to take advantage of Rapid Light Missile launchers and they *are* a cruiser weapon system. Thanks :)

A few comments:
- lmgtfy.com?q=1000+dps+tengu
- http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/55448-High-dps-enough-tank-medium-price-tengu.html (Not how I'd fit it, but it's servicable and I've used a similar fit)
- If you're talking about ratting, make sure that your reload DPS is unchecked. This is also generally true for PVP.
- You straight up said the Bellicose gets 40-50k EHP and 550 DPS. You constantly shift goalposts by using T2 rigs and T3 bonuses for your fits but insist that nobody else can when comparing ****. CCP Fozzie straight ripped you a new ******* for being the shitstain that you are.
- If you're really yaay: what the **** why are you so ******* bad now? Have I really come so far in this game that I've surpassed you so dramatically in general ship knowledge?

-Liang