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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-09-18 14:40:29 UTC
Also, reducing rage range is just going to make them even less used. They are fine how they are currently regardless of damage.

I am thinking of rage rockets, they really need the range they currently have to be useful, nerfing it at all makes them completely useless. I flown rocket hawks in PvP for a long time and they need that rage range to fit their niche. (This was before ASBs, but still.) It's really important that a rocket boat can hit at 9km with rage, because if they can successfully kite within scram range, their mediocre dps compared with other close range weapons can grind them down. Making rage have less range is basically saying "now you have to use CN ammo to do it", which is basically nerfing rocket damage in general, since CN ammo has less DPS.

Rage HAMs have short enough range, 18km? Thats well within scorch range, barrage range, which are similar in applied DPS when you get down to it because of the ****** explosion radius/velocity on rages. HAMs need more DPS in general, regardless of damage type, so slightly buffing rage missile damage while nerfing range really doesnt help.

Rage torps are horrible NOW, why would anyone every use them in the future if their range gets nerfed? They can't hit anything that is moving as it is, so decreasing their range is just a horrible idea, even if they get additional DPS. Leave them as they are in terms of range and make them better for hitting targets to become closer to other torps, if anything.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Raging Beaver
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2012-09-18 14:40:33 UTC
Most of the changes seem interesting to me apart from this:

CCP Fozzie wrote:

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time


So maybe let's call the missiles' flight to the target "tracking", this is the only way it would made sense to me.
You have an anti-missile module, it's called a launcher, a launcher loaded with defender missiles. It's useless? Make it useful then, don't introduce a ridiculous mechanic like the one above.
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#83 - 2012-09-18 14:41:10 UTC
Suddenly... Armor tank bc fleets everywhere!
Bap1811
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#84 - 2012-09-18 14:41:53 UTC
I would like to know what was the reasoning behind making TDs affect missiles? What made you decide to go ahead with this, what was the problem with missiles that making them TD-able fixes?


This and the base HML nerf is a massive nerf to small gang podla drake pvp which was the biggest small gang pvp "doctrine". Not only do we have to play with less range and damage (trivial I suppose...) but making TDs affect missiles means that our 5-6 man gangs are gonna be forced in even closer to gangs usually twice or three times our size. HML range and damage projection is literally the only thing that allowed us to do that, nothing else really works.

Meaning that we'll probably have to start fitting TE to our drakes, and its not like drake DPS is good to start with. Or we'll probably just have to run from any gang with any amount of random TD equipped. I know no one gives a **** about small gang pvp and solo to a lesser extent but at least leave it alone, dont nerf it.

So apart from my ranting, i'm still interested in what you are hoping to fix/change with the TDs affecting missiles part.


The hurricane changes are kinda bad as they are asymmetrical to how its always been. Its always been that you can shield tank a typically armor ship and have more PG to play around for guns and high utility. Its the exact same for the rupture, shield tank it and you can get a rack of 425s and some med neuts, same with Thorax, if you shield tank it you can shove a bunch of ions/neutrons on it etc. Hurricane fit this perfectly. Moreover not only that but it means you are litterally shitting all over the armor cane.

Also just buff HAMS a little, reduce PG a little or smth, because the caracal is still **** even with the cruiser changes.
stoicfaux
#85 - 2012-09-18 14:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Reducing the range of missiles is ok as i agree that HMLs had way too much range, especially combined with range bonuses on hulls like caracal and tengu.


Meh.

New Range of Fury missiles:
Cerberus ~128km
Tengu, Caracal, ~85km
Drake, Nighthawk ~57km (no range bonus)

TC range script possibilities for Drake and Tengu.
10% : 63km 94km (i.e. 110% times base ranges above, or 63km for Drake, 94 for Tengu)
20% : 68km, 102km
30% : 74km, 111km

I would like more numbers on how the TCs/TEs will affect missiles. Because it's going to be interesting on how to balance them without the Drake and Tengu HMLs easily having the same range again.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-09-18 14:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagehi
Steelshine wrote:
RIP Heavy Missiles, you now get to go to that special place where hybrids lived for so many years. Maybe you'll be useful again in 2016


Perhaps we can expect to see some variety in fleet compositions now. Less "oh look, another drake gang" or "hey look, a tengu gang" is a good thing in my book.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-09-18 14:43:41 UTC
eat **** Tengus

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-09-18 14:43:55 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Reducing the range of missiles is ok as i agree that HMLs had way too much range, especially combined with range bonuses on hulls like caracal and tengu.


Meh.

New Range of Fury missiles:
Cerberus ~128km
Tengu, Caracal, ~85km
Drake, Nighthawk ~57km (no range bonus)

TC range script possibilities for Drake and Tengu.
10% : 63km 94km (i.e. 110% times base ranges above, or 63km for Drake, 94 for Tengu)
20% : 68km, 102km
30% : 74km, 111km

I would like more numbers on how the TCs/TEs will affect missiles. Because it's going to be interesting on how to balance them without the Drake and Tengu HMLs easily having the same range again.


They have to sacrifice tank to do it though. Like every other ship in the game. Seems to be more in line with everything else this way.
Lili Lu
#89 - 2012-09-18 14:43:59 UTC
Steelshine wrote:
RIP Heavy Missiles, you now get to go to that special place where hybrids lived for so many years. Maybe you'll be useful again in 2016

LOL, no. It's back to BSs with you, nbd. No more cheap ass drake blobs. Earn those tech moons brother. Well at least until they are also nerfed. P I think you guys will be able to adjust.

And wtg Blarff, love the trolling.P

This is all subject to tweaking on percentages. But don't anybody think the base ideas are going to be nixed.
Dirk Morbho
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-09-18 14:44:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time



HELL YES

Death to all drakes!
Vince Draken
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#91 - 2012-09-18 14:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vince Draken
Well, **** you tengus and **** you drakes v0v

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time

^ This is the best part of the changes imo.

This is a good change CCP Fozzie, it will require certian alliances in eve online to use their heads a little when coming up with fleet comps!
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#92 - 2012-09-18 14:44:52 UTC
At least give NH some grid (FINALLY) to somewhat offset damage reduction. You cutting that of Cane shows you can easily do it.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#93 - 2012-09-18 14:45:20 UTC
I love how every single enemy has suddenly managed to fit TDs for all the crying missile users.
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-09-18 14:45:50 UTC
Sounds like a caracal nerf to me :(
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#95 - 2012-09-18 14:49:42 UTC
I love seeing all these "DEATH TO DRAKE AND TENGU" posts without thinking about other ships that might've had to use HM's...

Nighthawk, Caracal, Cerberus, etc.

The Caracal's getting a slight buff, but the DPS with HM's is going to be terrible.


Ed: and don't even get me started on the other two...
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#96 - 2012-09-18 14:49:52 UTC
Since I don't use dreadnaughts, what is the implication of this change with regards to pilots using Phoenix's?
Cpt Gobla
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-09-18 14:50:14 UTC
Very interesting changes.

I do like the idea of gaining more fitting options for missile boats. Many Caldari boats have already been discussed but one thing that sprung to my mind is a Torpedo Typhoon using these updated Tracking Enhancers.

Depending on how much they increase the range and reduce the explosion velocity this could turn into one mean Battleship, even more so than it is now. Especially since TEs benefit ACs as well.

The new Bellicose likewise seems to open some interesting options. Combining these new Tracking Enhancers with a bonused Target Painter will probably do very, very nasty things to frigates, even with the reduced HM damage.

I don't fly Caldari, so I'll leave other to comment on that. But I like how this will benefit Minmatar Ships with split weapon systems.

Could this possibly even be a buff to the Naglfar? And, seeing as TEs would provide exactly what Citadel Torps need, maybe even the Phoenix?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#98 - 2012-09-18 14:50:22 UTC
Lelob wrote:
Sounds like a caracal nerf to me :(


I use lights on mine so I'm getting buffedBig smile
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-09-18 14:50:55 UTC
Guess we'll have to come up with another cheap fleetcomp with which we'll be able to outblob everyone on this side of the galaxy and suicide those fleets on much more expensive fleets.

Life goes on.
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
Against ALL Authorities
#100 - 2012-09-18 14:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmell
Uhm...cough...did you check on armor cane fittings when you were working out that PG nerf? Because armor cane will be hit really hard by this, there wasn't so much free pg left even with 220mm guns

Aside this, pretty cool changes