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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#921 - 2012-09-19 02:18:28 UTC
Isaiah Harms wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We're going to be changing the hurricane at the same time


Oh yeah you're changing it. What you didn't tell everyone is the Hurricane with a typical 1600mm plate can only fit 5 180mm
autocannons. P.S. That's with a 5% powergrid implant.

Kind of pathetic. Oh... and very sneaky of you CCP. What's the deal? Don't like the Whelp Cane? Have to save your precious supercapital friends at the demise of every other player in-game?

Can we just eliminate Minmatar and Caldari from the game. I'd like those skillpoints back.

TY.


Welp canes are shield tank. Also the brutix wants words with you about armour fittings.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#922 - 2012-09-19 02:18:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Well keep in mind you also have to take into account the relative velocity. Turret ships can mitigate the effect of the target's velocity by minimizing absolute velocity (you do know how vector addition and subtraction works, I'm assuming). Missile ships can't.


Turret ships have to deal with tracking. Sounds to me like turret and missile ships will have an equal footing after these changes.

You're not really thinking this through, are you? Unless your goal happens to be "MAKE ALL DE SYSTEMS DE SAME".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord MuffloN
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#923 - 2012-09-19 02:21:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord MuffloN
This thread have shown that it's never too late to double down on crazy, and I'm not talking about the changes in the OP's post.


Schenz wrote:
As a week old Eve newbie I put together a skill plan to get into a Drake and then later a Tengu using Heavy Missiles. All my research has been into how to train for these ships in PvE and PvP. If i continue with this skill plan am I going to be gimped come the Winter update having no skills for other weapon types? Should I give up now and choose something else? I was just getting my bearings and now I feel lost again. lol.


My first month in was spent in a medium shield boosting heavy missile Raven in 0.0, I became a billionare within short order, and that was in 2006, trust me, you'll be fine, just go with what seems fun, besides, a Drake isn't a huge investment in terms of ISK or skillpoints, and a lot of the skillpoints can be reused for other things.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#924 - 2012-09-19 02:24:05 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

You're not really thinking this through, are you? Unless your goal happens to be "MAKE ALL DE SYSTEMS DE SAME".


Thinking it through more than you are. The changes are not making missiles exactly the same as everything else, same as how lasers are not the same as arty. What is changing is that HML will no longer out class everything else and the other options are now viable to use.
Isaiah Harms
State War Academy
Caldari State
#925 - 2012-09-19 02:25:00 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
everyone whining and bitching that the drake will be useless now needs to think out of his tiny little box here.

for damage: fit hams -> 600 or 700 something dps -> comparable to other bcs -> drake still works
for range: add a third bcu and a te and sacrifice a little tank like all the other battlecruisers do -> drake still works

same goes for the tengu. or basically any ship using hml.




Ummm.. You barely understand concepts such as falloff for turrets... yet you think you have the understanding to discuss missile explosion velocity and explosion radius like a pro.

Since you don't understand them.. go get your Drake and find a dual prop Cynabal and enjoy shooting at it until it kills you.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#926 - 2012-09-19 02:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
baltec1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

You're not really thinking this through, are you? Unless your goal happens to be "MAKE ALL DE SYSTEMS DE SAME".


Thinking it through more than you are. The changes are not making missiles exactly the same as everything else, same as how lasers are not the same as arty. What is changing is that HML will no longer out class everything else and the other options are now viable to use.

No, this change doesn't make any of the other options more viable except for a mild buff to fitting. That's my entire point.

If I have a piece of candy sitting next to turds from three different people, pouring cow manure on the candy doesn't make the turds more appetizing.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#927 - 2012-09-19 02:27:13 UTC
Great job ANY rebalancing. To make this game better its awesome !!! Cheers CCP Big smile
Lili Lu
#928 - 2012-09-19 02:28:54 UTC
Schenz wrote:
As a week old Eve newbie I put together a skill plan to get into a Drake and then later a Tengu using Heavy Missiles. All my research has been into how to train for these ships in PvE and PvP. If i continue with this skill plan am I going to be gimped come the Winter update having no skills for other weapon types? Should I give up now and choose something else? I was just getting my bearings and now I feel lost again. lol.

And see this is part of the problem. Did you choose that plan because it was what appealed to you on an unlearned but aesthetic basis (this is ok for a new player) or was it that everyone said eve is on easy mode and all you ever have to train is HML and Drake Tengu? Because if the latter that is what has been wrong with the last 4 years. I hope it was the former. If it was, just persevere but recognize it won't be the easy button it was.

Anyway, lots of ships getting altered. So, probably would be a good time to experiment a little with frig sized ships and do serious training on support skills (cap, propulsion, both types of tanking, etc) until you have some experience with the weapons, know what you like, and know more about how they will operate in comparison to other choices.

Every character should have two races trained anyway. I know it's hard to do as a new player, but in the long run it is what will make you happy in this game. Too many people went into the 3-4 year old fotm and thought somehow it would never be exposed and nerfed. Contrary to the whiners itt HML and Drakes and Tengus will probably come out of this is relatively ok state. But they won't be what they were and still are for another couple months, which is easy mode and one weapon fits all purposes.
Lord MuffloN
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#929 - 2012-09-19 02:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord MuffloN
Isaiah Harms wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
everyone whining and bitching that the drake will be useless now needs to think out of his tiny little box here.

for damage: fit hams -> 600 or 700 something dps -> comparable to other bcs -> drake still works
for range: add a third bcu and a te and sacrifice a little tank like all the other battlecruisers do -> drake still works

same goes for the tengu. or basically any ship using hml.




Ummm.. You barely understand concepts such as falloff for turrets... yet you think you have the understanding to discuss missile explosion velocity and explosion radius like a pro.

Since you don't understand them.. go get your Drake and find a dual prop Cynabal and enjoy shooting at it until it kills you.


Dual prop Cynabal, one of the better ways to kill those are dual web nano HML Drakes, ironically enough.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#930 - 2012-09-19 02:31:12 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

No, this change doesn't make any of the other options more viable except for a mild buff to fitting. That's my entire point.


Oh so now HML are still better than everything else suddenly? Funny, I thought you just spent the last few pages pulling your hair out over how screwed missile junkies were now that rails, beams and arty could play with them without being out ranged and out damaged.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#931 - 2012-09-19 02:31:28 UTC
Schenz wrote:
As a week old Eve newbie I put together a skill plan to get into a Drake and then later a Tengu using Heavy Missiles. All my research has been into how to train for these ships in PvE and PvP. If i continue with this skill plan am I going to be gimped come the Winter update having no skills for other weapon types? Should I give up now and choose something else? I was just getting my bearings and now I feel lost again. lol.



think of it this way missiles are going to be as good as any other medium weapon... so no need to change direction...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#932 - 2012-09-19 02:32:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Because turrets arn't impacted by moving targets at allRoll


Ever heard of sig radius? The thing that missiles have to deal with far more than turrets, that is part of the reason why torpedoes are awful? Because motion is only part of the equation here. And due to the fact that I do indeed also fly turret ships I'm aware of this whole "missing" thing that happens if a target's transversal is greater than a target's tracking speed. But the thing is, at least with railguns, your damage isn't already being cut by the fact that your target doesn't have a retardedly large sig radius.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#933 - 2012-09-19 02:32:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

No, this change doesn't make any of the other options more viable except for a mild buff to fitting. That's my entire point.


Oh so now HML are still better than everything else suddenly? Funny, I thought you just spent the last few pages pulling your hair out over how screwed missile junkies were now that rails, beams and arty could play with them without being out ranged and out damaged.

Let's play a game.
See how many pages we can go before you start putting words in my mouth again.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#934 - 2012-09-19 02:37:52 UTC
Isaiah Harms wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Do not forget that missile boats are able to specifically pick the damage type they do. Outside of drones, no other weapon system has that luxury.



Uh... Ever looked at Projectile ammo? Guess not. Go do it now.

I clarified my post. I am talking about being able to select a targets resistance whole and pick the damage type to exploit it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#935 - 2012-09-19 02:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Let's play a game.
See how many pages we can go before you start putting words in my mouth again.


The only game being played here is your poor attempts to keep your easy mode ratting machines and lazy man pvp missile slingers.
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#936 - 2012-09-19 02:40:23 UTC
My Rook is going to be sad once this expansion comes out
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#937 - 2012-09-19 02:42:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Let's play a game.
See how many pages we can go before you start putting words in my mouth again.


The only game being played here is your poor attempts to keep your easy mode ratting machines and lazy man pvp milles slingers.

Seems you conveniently ignored the part where I said the range nerf was fine but the damage nerf was over the top.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#938 - 2012-09-19 02:44:13 UTC
Allandri wrote:
Meditril wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time


The first one (tracking enhancers) will make missile boats absolute frigate murders. Just change your script and viola you can switch from long range to anti-frig point defense. A very bad decision.

The second one (TDs affect missiles) will make TDs the must have module for all frigates... having "must have" modules is very sad.


Must have modules currently include a long / short point and a prop mod


Dont forget nos / neut when able, and web vs smaller critters.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#939 - 2012-09-19 02:44:49 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Hey I'm at work and don't have EFT handy. Can you please post the following DPS numbers:
- HML Caracal at 80km
- Beam Omen at 80km
- Rail Thorax at 80km
- Arty Rupture at 80km
- HML Caracal at 50km
- Beam Omen at 50km
- Rail Thorax at 50km
- Arty Rupture at 50km
Why do we never worry about what is supposed to keep the target in place at 80km and 50km?


Because we're talking about long range weapons systems? If you want to tackle, why don't you fit up close range weapons? Is your argument about HML being weak really that flimsy?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#940 - 2012-09-19 02:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Seems you conveniently ignored the part where I said the range nerf was fine but the damage nerf was over the top.


I see you continue to miss the part where everyone has told you multiple times that even after the 20% nerf the HML are on par for damage with the three other weapon types.