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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Selaya Ataru
Phalanx Solutions
#861 - 2012-09-19 00:56:03 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Isaiah Harms wrote:
Proposition:

Do not nerf Drake DPS (it already sucks).
Do not nerf Hurricane powergrid.

If you destroy the battlecruisers to fix cruiser aren't you just making more work (and grief) for everyone down the road?

Oh... and whoever reading this:

IF YOU SUCK SO MUCH THAT YOU ARE STILL AFRAID OF DRAKES... go play Wow.


How is nerfing the Drake and Hurricane destroying all the battlecruisers? You do realize there is more than those two right?


In fairness to him, the other ones are, for the most part, complete garbage. The Harb is good, but the other non-tier-3 BCs are pretty bad :\


Ferox is the thing for gas mining though.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#862 - 2012-09-19 00:57:01 UTC
You know what, I was sceptical about these changes at first, but so far, I have to say I'm liking the looks of things.

The HML nerfs seemed just a bit overboard, though still quite needed, the buffs to T2 missiles was long since due (penalties were alright, but stacking for each launcher?) and I really like that.

The changes to the T2 ammo overall will be good, as Fury/Rage were meant to be used on larger targets, and it's acceptable that they're inferior on same sized targets.

Light missiles needed the buff, as they have anemic levels of DPS.

Precisions will be even better against smaller targets than before, and you won't have to try and weigh if you're losing more DPS by changing to them or not each time it comes time to use them.

Overall, though I wasn't sure, I've thought it over today, and I like the looks of things.

Except for for the Cerberus and Nighthawk, those things are boned until the rebalancing for them hits.
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#863 - 2012-09-19 00:57:53 UTC
Yikes, decreasing damage and range, with a slight velocity increase, hmm time to run the numbers...

Very scepticle.

At this point you might as well turn Rage Torps into a raging smart bomb, that's its new range :P

Dear Santa Claus,

Please fix the torps on my Phoenix so that I don't get laughed at by my friends on the playground :)

o7
Isaiah Harms
State War Academy
Caldari State
#864 - 2012-09-19 00:58:04 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant.


Fitting a full rack of 720's already requires a PG implant or ACR. Moron.

CCP Fozzie wrote:

Also fitting a standard shield autocane with neuts and LSE will require dropping a few guns down to 220mm.


Oh yes... because pro pvp'ers fit mixed gun sizes all the time. Thanks for the tip, ya big moron!

Proposition. CCP Fozzie to be removed from this team.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#865 - 2012-09-19 00:58:12 UTC
Shade Millith wrote:
Frankly, HML's are going to be pretty useless for everything now. PVE and PVP.

I'd have rather you'd have removed 50% range than 20% damage. At least Turrets have the OPTION to vastly increase their damage close up.

So, unless that Fury ammo has a 40% damage increase, you've pretty much nerfed it into the ground.

Not to mention you're already gearing up to further nerf the drake into the ground.

Stop flailing around randomly with a sledge hammer, and start carefully adjusting things.


HML will still do more damage at long range than the other long range med weapons...
Jackie Butters
Fawkes' Loyal Professionals
#866 - 2012-09-19 00:59:21 UTC
One thing people have overlooked is that if you fire light, heavy or cruise missiles at someone, if you unlock the target...the missiles still hit that target. So how would tracking enhancers, and computers affect that...it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, the missiles have a max flight time, and precise velocity, I propose, that you be able to web missiles, shoot missiles, or require more people to use defender missiles, which is something that everyone likes to ignore.

How would a TE/TC/TD affect how far/accurate, my GUIDED MISSILES ARE? whole point is that they can guide themselves once launched, whereas this is an interesting proposition it still requires you to invent a new module for it, MISSILE DISRUPTORS .

With all due respect, you've got to stop letting your children write forum posts. Because this is ridiculous :p
all kidding aside, it looks like a lot of the noob posts. lacking forsight, and common sense.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#867 - 2012-09-19 00:59:38 UTC
Isaiah Harms wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant.


Fitting a full rack of 720's already requires a PG implant or ACR. Moron.


Their PG is getting reduced. Perhaps you should read these things before acting like a fool.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#868 - 2012-09-19 01:01:22 UTC
BinaryData wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Isaiah Harms wrote:
Proposition:

Do not nerf Drake DPS (it already sucks).




i dont get it a beam harby with 3 heats with long range ammo does 305 dps

a similar fir for the drake gets 395 dps... take away 20% you get 316... i say take away 15% wich would be 335 which is a ok for me...

by low dps what do you mean?



RoF with Max skills is still roughly 8 seconds or so. I have L5 on all but 2 skills, and the RoF is still around 8 seconds. Most battlecruiser class ships have a 6second or lower RoF. Not to mention damage is instant, and missiles take 2 - 4 seconds to reach their target, depending on the range.

If anything the damage should be nerfed by 5 -10%, and the flight time of missiles needs to be boosted. Faster flying missiles for less dps, makes sense to me.

Tengu's don't need to be nerfed by this, they already take god damn forever to get into, not to mention if you die in one, you lose SP. Might as well do that for drakes too. You're "balancing" the wrong stuff, once again.



i know what delayed dps is i usually fly drone ships...

thing is you get damage selection... i would not be surprised to see once we get to BC balance you see that kin bonus be replaced with a rate of fire bonus...

then it wont mater what damage type you select it will be the same dps...

i think 20% is too harsh but 15% is great for me... as a weapon system 15% reduction puts the weapon in line and takes into account all its negative and positive attributes...

now the big question is what is this going to do to stealth bomber gangs... those torps are going to be stupid now...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
El 'Terrible
Cat Squad
#869 - 2012-09-19 01:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: El 'Terrible
.
Merkal Aubauch
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#870 - 2012-09-19 01:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Merkal Aubauch
LOL ppl u dont understand that HMLs were overpowerd all the time.


With all 5 skills on unbonused ship:

250mm Railgun II Spike M
65km optimal + 15km falloff with 20 DPS 0,00755 tracking

Heavy Beam Laser II Aurora M

54optimal + 10 falloff with 21,1DPS 0,01031 tracking

720mm Howitrzer Artillery II ammo: Tremor M

54km optimal 22km falloff with 16,8 DPS 0,00687 tracking

general for turrets
+ insta dmg
- one DMG type for long range ammo
- full DPS only in optimal then its going down in falloff
- might have tracking issues
- some of turrets cant change DMG type

Heavy Missile Launcher II Caldari navy scourge Heavy Missile

84.4km range 38.2dps

+ full dps @ full range
+ cba on tracking
- can be smartbombed or target can run
- low signature + high speed are lowering DPS
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#871 - 2012-09-19 01:02:49 UTC
SyntaxPD wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Isaiah Harms wrote:
Proposition:

Do not nerf Drake DPS (it already sucks).




i dont get it a beam harby with 3 heats with long range ammo does 305 dps

a similar fir for the drake gets 395 dps... take away 20% you get 316... i say take away 15% wich would be 335 which is a ok for me...

by low dps what do you mean?



Now, if you're going to use lasers, you going o shoot with EM\thermal. Put Em or thermal on drake...



oh cool lasers can do kin and ex damage now?

wait until the drake gets a rebalance expect that kin damage bonus to be replaced with a rate of fire bonus...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#872 - 2012-09-19 01:04:40 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Pink Marshmellow wrote:
Watch me fit all my ships with tracking disruptors.

Watch everyone fit tracking disruptors on their ship.


Watch everyone whine that they can't kill each other or its taking forever.


CCP nerfs TD to oblivion and makes its useless for 3 years.

CCP balancing process sucks it takes forever just to change a few digits.


You still haven't fix core philosophy problems with Gallente ships being slow armor tank and having the shortest range guns.

Railguns are the biggest POS of eve.



Soon "Because of Falcon" will be replaced by "Because of Pilgrim."


I wish. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#873 - 2012-09-19 01:09:33 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Soon "Because of Falcon" will be replaced by "Because of Pilgrim."

I wish. P
Don't think it's too far-fetched. As it is they are gonna have to nerf the hell outta TDs on unbonused ships, or it's just gonna be RSDs / old-skool ECM all over again.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#874 - 2012-09-19 01:09:35 UTC
Isaiah Harms wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant.


Fitting a full rack of 720's already requires a PG implant or ACR. Moron.

CCP Fozzie wrote:

Also fitting a standard shield autocane with neuts and LSE will require dropping a few guns down to 220mm.


Oh yes... because pro pvp'ers fit mixed gun sizes all the time. Thanks for the tip, ya big moron!

Proposition. CCP Fozzie to be removed from this team.


CCP Fozzie and the team he is on is the saving grace of this game we play right now. I have a counter proposition for you:

Learn something new.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#875 - 2012-09-19 01:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Iris Bravemount
While I see the merit of the proposed changes, I must confess that on a personal level, this disappoints me a little.

I'm a big fan of Khanid ships, which got less beautiful V3 skins than their previous skins (no more blue lights, no more all black hull).
Then, the missile graphics overhaul comes and makes up for it.
Now a missile nerf will spoil the fun completely. Escpecially the tracking disruptor part, which will ruin the edge they had over other Amarr ships in PvE.

The Drake is what needs to be nerfed. Why nerf all missile boats because of one ship?

And btw: Missiles use a whole different skillset than guns, why allow one Ewar type to affect them both equally?

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Artyom Hunter
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#876 - 2012-09-19 01:11:24 UTC
"Lets nerf the drakes ****** damage even more" - Said no one ever.


The problem is not the weapon system itself, but the hulls of the the ship. So work on the hulls rather than the missile systems. e.g Look at the Cerb, seriously everyone look at it and laugh.

The cane's Nerf is very harsh, but not entirely undeserved.
RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#877 - 2012-09-19 01:15:16 UTC
CCP YOU JUST MADE THE TENGU USELESS AND NOT ON PAR WITH THE REST OF ITS T3 COUNTERPARTS, "-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)" MISSILES ARELEADY HAD LOW DPS AS OF RIGHT KNOW DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME. BATPHONING CSM



Heavy Missiles

-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles

-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, we’ll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#878 - 2012-09-19 01:18:24 UTC
Artyom Hunter wrote:
"Lets nerf the drakes ****** damage even more" - Said no one ever.



Yet even after this nerf HML will be on par with the other med long range weapons.
Merkal Aubauch
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#879 - 2012-09-19 01:18:25 UTC
cry more child...
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#880 - 2012-09-19 01:21:03 UTC
how come no one has mentioned stealth bombers yet?

if a tc with a tracking boost script increases ex velocity by 30% and reduces ex radius by 30% (this is an assumption that it will be this much)

you are looking at 207 ex velocity and 315 ex radius for torps...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.