Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Oh yeah, anyone want to talk about the double wammy of ratting in the south where rats Tracking disrupt and spew defender like no other. Guess Missiles are worthless ratting platforms through and through and through down there now.

Good thing they haven't ****** over drones yet.

Im interested in what DPS your Sliep does at 50km (let me give you a hint, its about 4 dps)

Uh, please let me know what fit you're using to get that.

Power Creep is indeed bad.
These generic missiles changes are, too.

All these changes got one thing in common: it streamlines missiles into more like the gunnery platforms. This has been mentioned by numerous posters here already, I shouldn't need to elaborate, but: a) HML changes are non-stop argued by comparison to gunnery dps stats, completely ignoring the innate differences between missiles and guns. b) TD/TE/TC affecting all weapon platforms.

It's a worrysome development, as it hints on CCP (and CSM, if you guys are involved in this) either 1) don't know enough about the innate differences between missiles/guns, 2) don't care and/or have a secret agenda to streamline this (if this is intentional, but not mentioned to players, this is virtually deceiving and no better than lies).

Just see how this thread pans out.
* HML nerf pro-posters compare a mid-range platform that has several innate counters guns don't (travel time - and you can outrun missiles too, defenders, smartbombs), with long-range gunnery that operate on completely different terms/mechanics
* HML nerf pro-posters tend to even post long-range gun ammo and compare it with optimal ammo type on HML, skewing numbers (and this even disregards the point I just did above, which is quite major)
* HML nerf pro-posters tend to ignore that there's alot more natural HML ships that are in a "bad" (not very much used, at all) shape, than there is those two (Drake, Tengu) ones that is. They also fail to present why the Drake and Tengu respectively is being so "overpowered", while, if they had done that, they could identify issues with those ships (and the role they are given) themselves, rather than the HML themselves.
* TD/TE/TC affecting all weapon types will have a major impact on the game, it's not something that should and could just be brushed aside as a side-note in a post about missile changes. This is a major game mechanic uphaul that could potentially change the whole shape of PvP as we know it. It deserves as separate thread, and should be broadcasted better to the public.

Yes, you are right that Power Creep is bad. The suggested game mechanic changes here, too, are. Not because the intention is bad (it isn't). Not because, like you suggest, that we somehow are against nerfing overall (not all of us are). But rather because CCP seems to either shoot from the hip and chance with potential game-overhauling changes, or have some hidden agenda is equally game upsetting.

This is a good post.

Maybe I missed something that stated that the "missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players" was meant for anything other than the calculation of range. The addition of the TC/TE/TD effects actually complicates fittings for missile ships which before had module types that in no way were useful to them before in ways unique to the weapon system. That's another thing for you to train new players on.

Wait a few months.

I'm interested in this 700 dps fit that totally works with the proposed gun fitting changes:

[Sleipnir, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x3
Warrior II x2

Or several other ASB fits that are also similar.

or the 400 dps it can project out to 50-60km just with weapons and no drones.

or the variety of other ways you can fit it into more of a true sniper boat with 100km range and solid buffer tank.

Were you the one a few threads ago who bitched at me for doing pimped t2 fits and bonuses, and here you're making an impossible dps statement unless you go with billions in fitting options? And then chucked in Overheating stats to boot.

why yes, yes you were the one.

Eek. I don't know what to say. I hate Drakes, but while I'm happy to see them nerfed, I don't think ****-chopping the damage off of heavy missiles is the way to do it. I like the range nerf, but I'd rather see the DPS output stay the same and have explosion radius + velocity nerfed instead. I don't have a problem with Drakes / Tengus doing 400-600 dps to other ships their own size, but the ridiculous range on heavies and the way they hit smaller ships (especially frigates) for so much damage in a way that's so tough to mitigate makes me mad.

Personally I'd leave DPS, keep your range nerf, and bump mitigating factors (sig radius / exp velocity) on heavies up by ~25-40%.

I also dislike the idea of making TEs and TCs (and disruptors) affect missiles. I'm all for having ways to interfere with missiles, but for the love of god don't make them the same module that does turrets. Otherwise EWAR becomes as simple as "Does it use weapons? Put a TD on it, win fight." Make a separate line of missile enhancements and counter modules. It will mean making some new module icons (potentially) but will be much better for the game.

The changes to medium weapons are mind-bogglingly poorly conceived. While I understand that the Omen / Navy Omen have issues fitting a rack of guns, I don't see why you can't fix this by buffing PG output on the relevant ships. You're also completely neglecting hybrids despite the fact that ships like the Brutix are often difficult to fit. The shrinking of med arty grid requirements only seems to make sense as a way to justify kneecapping the Hurricane (since last I checked fitting most arty ships wasn't exactly difficult, and the only ships that are difficult to fit arty on are ones designed for ACs, like the Vaga).

Speaking of which, why are you nerfing the Cane? I made a whole separate thread about this, but seriously, the Cane and Harbinger are like the only BCs in the game that correctly straddle the line between "underpowered garbage" (the rest) and "OP bullsh*t" (the Drake) (tier 3 BCs excluded, of course. They're alright).

I really had high hopes for the "bigger-than-frigates" rounds of changes. The cruisers look OK (although its pretty much impossible to tell from a sheet of default hull facts-- without being able to put them in Pyfa or in game there's not much that can be deduced re: their capabilities), but some of these changes are pretty bizarre.