Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ultimately it comes down to this:

These changes are going live. Good or bad, this is what we are getting. Missiles will not be as bad as some fear, nor will they (in practice) be as good as some here claim.

The HML Drake, because it is a solid and relatively versatile ship, and because Caldari pilots (as always) don't have a lot of choice anyway, will continue to see some use. Since CCPs real goal here had more to do with changing null sec mega-blob warfare than "balance," hopefully these changes will be enough. If not, more nerfs are on the way.

The Drake's real strength is a combination of it's mobility and ability to apply damage at all ranges. However, very few pilots actually take advantage of this as it is today. Assuming they are willing to leave docking range or their gate, they drive up to the target or orbit at 20km and blast away. For these pilots these changes will be a HUGE buff, as now their HAMs will actually work. Result?

Post patch, HAM Drakes are going to be scary. And they should be. Assuming they can catch you that is.

Post patch, HML Drakes will remain fine. I would have no problems or concerns flying one. I prefer the Cane (as a pirate I cherish agility and speed over pretty much anything else), but the Drake will remain a solid choice.

Post patch, HML Caracals (and the new Bellicose) are going to be wicked. You will have to FLY it, and if you screw up you are probably going to die in a fire, but I am so confident about where this ship is headed that I am currently improving my missile skills to take advantage of it.

Post patch, Rocket boats are going to be far more dangerous than they are today -- and they are already scary now. If you are a Caldari frigate pilot, get Frigate, AF, and GMP to level five, grab yourself a Hawk or Hookbill, and watch your enemies melt.

No, PL doesn't need CCP's help.

If it means anything people have already decreased their usage of HML's.

Canes and 425's have dethroned Drakes and HML's as the number 1 killers for the month of November.

In other news Minmatar ships still make up 9/20 of the to killers, and 8/20 of the most used weapons are projectiles.

OT, I already had this argument with Noemi. You see, my experience of low sec is that Drakes outnumber Canes. The important point is that neither of us can take a representative sample or see the comprehensive ship usage. So your implied assertion that Canes outnumber Drakes in lowsec is not provable. CCP may/probably has the ability to see raw ship use in lowsec and apparently they aren't concerned about Drakes only being a nullsec phenomenon.



Careful there mustache. The last Drake defender to salivate when Drakes were not sitting on the top spot had to swallow it when they managed to regain the top spot by the end of the month. Canes could go the same way the Zealots did and manage to lose out by November 30.

Regardless, even if Drakes don't overtake Canes by the end of the month, there are two problems with your argument: one, the gap between the first place Canes and the second place Drakes will be a mere couple thousand, unlike the majority of the monthly stats the last 3 years where Drakes outnumbered the second place ship two or more to one; second, the Cane is going to lose its current fitting abilities (see direct Cane nerf in the OP) and arguably is taking a harder hit than Drakes especially since the HM nerf has been watered down already, and thus will not be retaining any top place it may have at the end of the month.

Your concern about Minmatar and projectiles in general is valid. That has been a longstanding trend in the eve-kill stats. My theory is that the overdone TE falloff buff is most responsible for this, and also the overdone projectile alpha emphasis (although ac is really what shows up the most). Both of these can be trimmed and other weapon systems might gain some comparative stature in response.

We will see. This is all a lengthy process. And they already know it will be a continuous process even after the first full pass through all the ship classes.

This Just In

Theyre also nerfing the 425 cane in this thread . . .

Or Damnation with 5 lowslots...

Tier 2, not tech 2.

Indeed. I and others have said, most of the Caldari popularity is the result of the extinct Perception bonus Achura once had. It was never about Missiles. You came to EVE for years, people told you to roll Caldari Achura and once in game, people told you to skill up Missiles. Then came the missile revamp that gave them variables to hit and the system doesn't scale in any way shape or form. Lights are good, Mediums are 'meh, Large are bad and extra large are comical. People who made a logical choice 5 years ago are now stuck with outdated skills.

I agree, but it goes beyond this. Here's some other factors:

1. Most Eve players don't really understand how their guns work or what things like optimal and falloff really mean. They see huge DPS numbers from projectiles and believe that's what they are doing at falloff.

2. Minmatar have decent to exceptional PvP ships in every class from frigates to T2 BSs. No exceptions.

3. Minmatar have arguably the best pirate faction ships in the game.

4. Speed matters. It is, in my opinion, perhaps the most valuable asset a ship can have. Minmatar typically have the fastest ships.

5. CCP removed the T2 penalties on projectile ammo years ago.

Now take that and consider their opponents:

* The Gallente, until recently, had serious problems largely based upon broken hybrids and a reliance on drones. They were never as bad off as the Caldari, but they were close. Today they have a solid lineup of excellent ships in every category, but still suffer from issues with medium hybrids and drones.

* The Amarr have been a solid non-Minmatar choice for years. Solid, but unspectacular. I think it is here that your Rifter statement most correctly applies. Like the Minmatar, they too saw T2 ammo penalties removed years ago.

* The Caldari, until a year ago with the Hybrid fix, had basically one non-ECM combat ship: the Drake. And most people laughed at that. They were considered the PvE only race for a reason -- that's what they were. Even today they have as many broken and useless hulls as every other race in the game combined. Further, in order to use their complete ship lineup a player is forced to train two separate weapon systems. They have no choice, and if you are going to train direct fire weapons anyway, there was absolutely no practical reason to stick with the broken race. They are still, years fter everyone else, waiting to see their T2 ammo penalties removed.

Most Caldari pilots did the same thing I did. As soon as they realized how farked they were, they switched to another race and never looked back. I chose Minmatar, not for the Rifter, but for the dozens and dozens of exceptional hulls. It doesn't matter what class of ship I pick, I not only will have something good, but I will almost always have multiple choices. What's not to love?

Had I stuck with Caldari all those years ago... had I trusted CCP to actually fix their game.... I would STILL be waiting. Maybe next year the Caldari will have a working HAC, right?

I don't think point no1 is fair as evidenced by this thread a great deal of people fully understand how their guns work and have a deeply ingrained knowledge of fall off and optimal range/tracking etc and how that effects their ability to project power within the range of their weapon system.

I do agree with all of your other points though.