Player Features and Ideas Discussion

not really the case tbh if the inital change went through that ccp had then missle ship would not have been used for very much and pvp is not the end all of ships. some of the cal pilot were here to defend against the nerfs with pvp in mind some were here defending missles as pve pilts only some of us were here defending them on all fronts thinking about the revamp of our ships and why they cannot kite any more ect.

on one hand... arguably my best battlecruiser option is being nerfed, thats sad.

on the other hand i'm getting 4 buffed cruisers, a new destroyer, buffed frigates and the prospect of a good ferox in the future.

the caracal is looking deadly, the moa is looking dependable and reliable, the blackbird is still the blackbird, the osprey now has some purpose...

the new caldari dessie looks joyous, the new caldari frigates are near enough top of the line and i can now credibly fly things other than minmatar in the other fleets.

am i happy to trade the drake in favour of all this? FRACK YES \o/

I have to use drones to kill frigates that get under my FMPLs on Omen while I can hit frigates perfectly fine with 425s on Cane with exactly the same character. With Drake, while it takes some time I can still kill them with heavy missiles.

wows boreing players are idiots.

I like cake...this isn't cake....

Currently I'm not against most of the changes that are in place, the T2 missile changes are a bit harsh on the fury/rage...I would compensate by adding a REALLY long range missile (+50% range) that does crap damage (-30%) and can only hit at size or above, and a long range (+20% range) that does slightly more damage (+5%) and can only hit at size or above. More options is good.

Did the Minmatar engineers just became stupid overnight and they can't make good powergrids anymore or what?
If I buy a hurricane now are they going to sneak into my hangar and cut some wires or steal a lot of ducttape?


You see, we've got this great bomber called B-52, but it's just overkill. It bombs our enemies into **** and that's unbalanced and unfair. We want to give our enemies a chance, that's why we're gonna cut off 2 of the engines so it will carry 20% less bombs and it'll sort of fly tilted. This will also help alleviate the problem of B-52's engines not wearing out fast, because Pratt & Whitney needs to sell more engines and buy more villas.

:/ OT does have some valid points, right now, only 2 missile ships are currently on the Eve-kill top 20 ships, Drake and tengu, and both are up for nerfs. Also there are only 2 missile launchers in the top 20 Weapons list, HML 2 and Meta 4 torps.

Although caldari have 5 ships in the top 20, Naga and Rokh are gun boats, and i'm willing to bet the manticore gets more kills from Bombs than torps.

Missile skills cost just as SP much as gun skills do, and cover a much smaller spectrum of usage. Lights don't do much damage, rockets need ranged bonused hulls to use, HAM's are hard to fit, Torps have damage application problems, and cruises are objectively not very good. Nerfing HML's probably would not cause Missile trained Caldari players to pick up ravens, I wouldn't, I would train for the much better minmatar or amarr battleships.

Arguably a player, especially newer ones, would benefit much more from training gunnery skills than missile skills, when gunnery support skills cover a wide spectrum of ships and turrets, while really only HML's and torps are used out of the launchers.

I agree that HML's are better than other medium weapons and probably needs the nerf, but can CCP give missile users something else worth using before proceeding with the HM nerf.

I find it intresting how projectiles have more kills on the top 20 than every other weapon system combined, with 4 of the top 5 being some variant of autocannon (first place belonging to HML2) . Perhaps CCP should look into those next.

- LM are buffed (10% damage, PG buff for the launchers ;
- rockets are buffed (GMP skill will apply to them) ;
- HAM are buffed (PG reduction + GMP skill) ;
- Torps are buffed (GMP skill).

So, ALL your concerns but rocket range are dealt with at the same time HML are nerfed. High damage missiles are indeed nerfed for their range, though those missiles should be situational, and they will still be very useful for a wide array of situations considering the range they still retain. Rockets for their part can benefit from rigs to earn almost the 50% range bonus bonused hull have.

Then, in the 5 caldari ships in the top 20 (1/4 ships of the top twenty, seem pretty balance to me in the first place), caldari have the same number of turret and missiles ship. Isn't it a balanced result in term of effectiveness ? There's a lot more turret ships than missile ships, so it's pretty normal that there is more turret ships in the top 20 in the first place.

Finaly, projectiles : just look at 1) the hurricane nerf and 2) the ship rebalance. CCP is rebalancing projectile weapons by rebalancing the ship using them (or by rebalancing all the other ships around them if you prefer). Just look at the rifter vs merlin/incursus/punisher to taste how it's looking like.

Agreed. But it's still fun to discuss this stuff.

I am glad that ccp are listening a bit and the proposed nerfs aren't as extreme as originally proposed, but crucially we're still getting them after many people have intelligently posted superb reasons as to why this balancing is unfair.

I am not a caldari player and in the wake of this I wouldn't want to be. Other people have posted comments about the caldari tears following copiously on this thread. My response to that is that if projectile weapons had a nerf as severe as the original proposal Minmatar space would turn into one giant wet sponge. I'd have enough tears to bath in... So the caldari bashing is a bit unfair.

The people who are supporting the nerf are probably the players that don't have the chops the take a drake down in pvp and that's always the way, bad players who cant get an edge want to take other people's advantages away from them.

My secondary point is that the missile is supposed to be the 'weapon of choice' of the caldari, but it isn't as the stats show most caldari pilots firing rails, some even mimic the fighting style of the gallente and use blasters, so much for a weapon of choice.

The missile nerf doesn't bother me, I fly Amarr, but I have sympathy for the Caldari which last time I checked was the most popular race for new players, by nerfing the caldari 'weapon of choice' ccp is making the game poorer for their newer players.