Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The point is though, that there are people who like to fly one race only. May it be for RP or whatever. I agree on the fact many Caldari pilots feel like HML only users. Now there is still 2 ways to interprete this data, and since you, Lili, are so fond of doing analysis of data you should maybe be able to do that too ;) ..

so, here we go. The first way is to say HML must be OP, thats why everyone uses them. There is a small part in it which is not completely wrong, because HML are indeed not a bad weapon system at all. Thats your interpretation of this all. Apart from the reaction you and/or others argued also with numbers, mostly EFT/Pyfa/whatever numbers, and also Eve-kill stats. Those numbers showed (in your opinion) everything which was needed to backup your point.

But there is also a second way. And that second way is the one you seem to forget about or which you dont want to let come to your mind. The sad fact is, all those missile using Caldari pilots had *no other option* than to go for HML, with Torps and Cruises being less than useful in anything but PvE, and even there they are no longer top of the list for a really long time (rework of pirate faction ships & Projectile buff). And with the Tengu, their own t3 obsoleted the Caldari Marauder and missile faction BS choices too. But again, not only because it was so good (and agreed, it is!), but also because the others were not.


HAM was not a really good option either, so Caldari medium and large missile PvP was just that - HML. Note the fact, that Caldari pilots even accepted the handicap to use a system which had only kinetic damage bonus in their hulls, because it *still* was better than the rest. And again, not because it was so OP. But because the other options sucked so hard.

Me and others see that this point is a really valid one too, and we also backed up our claims with facts. EFT, Pyfa, whatever. And Eve-kill stats. But apart from those stats I also looked at the game itself. And found that, YES: HML/Drake is the king of long range medium engagement. But first: this is not, what his game is all about, and second: HML/Drake is not the king of anything else. And funny, Caldari missile except HML/Drake and Tengu is not the king of anything else either. And its correct, it does not need to be king. But if its everywhere else far from being on par, then how can it be balance if this one thing will get killed too?

I do know that Hybrids have been buffed not just yesterday, and Caldari had also the option to go there. Still, Caldari have been told for ages that Hybrids suck (which they did for a long time) and if they went gunnery, for sure they chose something else. Besides crosstraining is harder for missile to for example projectiles than any gunnery to any other gunnery.

So thats what makes Caldari upset. They have been kicked in the balls numerous times, been buttraped without lubes again and again with "changes" which were in fact just nerfs. But this time they feel like someone wants to not just kick but also cut em off.

Now some of those changes have been taken back a bit, and most probably there will have to be more adjustments later on, but this feeling of "they will take everything I still have" is what made this thread so big.

Again, I do see some people here do have the best intentions and want to end up in a well balanced/well imbalanced game. But to understand the concerns of so many is important too, which ever your intention is. If its not just trolling, then ignoring those concerns would be indeed the best bet.

OT Smithers said this again and again. And he also showed (like I did) he is no HML-only pilot. In fact I am less a "one system only" pilot with my main than you are, Lili, since I seem to have more SP in both gunnery and missiles than you with my main, although I do know you need far less than even you to be diversified enough normally.

So as a resume, no Lili, I dont agree with your analysis of this data. I agree your analysis might be true for some, and might be one reason for this thread, but its for sure not the only one, or even the most important one.

Best regards.

"I'm poor Caldari Drake/Tengu pilot and I'm forced to use HMLs!"

Try to fly:
Light missile Vengeance
HML Sac
HML Legion
without being laughed at.

Amarr pilots are forced to use short range missiles. Unless you want to ignore 50% of your missile damage bonuses.

How so?

You keep saying this, though you forget a few points :
- There could be only one option, the option have to be good enough to be used at all. Look at medium railguns and gallente for an example of a "no other alternative" and "not used anyway" thing. Gallente have no other alternative than medium railguns for a medium weapon able to hit farther than 15km. Drones are not an option, because the myrmidon only have 75MBps bandwidth, and that mean even less dps than railguns.
- HAM are not broken as is. Tehy are not outstanding, though they are not that broken IMO, and the buff they are receiving will put them a but further ; their problem is only HML which are so much better they are pointless.
- Hybrids receive a buff a YEAR ago. Should each and every caldari pilot receive a registered letter to inform them ? Are they all that much stupid they cannot even consider using something else than missiles ? A year is way more than enough to train a weapon to very good effectiveness, so time to skill is not an excuse.
- I still would like to read an *argument* for the Raven being so bad at 70-100km with cruise missiles.

Why it's so important to have battleship that can own everyone?

Why it's so important to have OP weapon system?

First, I won't spend six month only to prove your point. Dude, think a little will you ?

And you didn't understand my first point. HML are not use because there is no other alternative but because they are the best alternative caldari have. This mean they are OP, because railguns Rokh are working.

As for your stupid argument of turret being the "best" in large and small size, it's plain stupid. There is no such thing as the "best", only "too good", if any, or the best *in a defined scenario*. And right now, HML are too good in too many scenarios, and still are the best in their own field (dps at long range)

But again, the most important part is : NOTHING SHOULD EVER BE SO GOOD THEY OBSOLETE ALL THE OTHER WEAPONS OF THEIR CLASS.

Maybe you will understand in capslock ?

T3s are probably the last class of ships they rebalance before moving to capitals.
I'd say summer 2014...

There is. I'm among those people who like to understand things, though you are obviously not among those who understand them nor like to explain them.

PS : "believe me" is not an argument, and you never brought one argument against cruise raven effectiveness beyond 70km.

Since you prefer solo PvP, what's the name of battleship that can solo?

Go back to your incursion please, and eat some of your missiles.

Hybrid buff, ever heard of this ? That was a year ago.

So here we are again : caldari players are even more fanatic than any amarr NPC could be, and they are stuck in their mind with using missiles only. OR, maybe they only didn't heard about the hybrid buff and CCP should have had sent them all a letter.

PS for statistics : observing is the good first thing to do. Then, it will be time to analyse. No cruise missiles in the stats, so what are the problems of cruise missiles ?