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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

First post First post First post
Author
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5361 - 2012-10-26 19:52:52 UTC
Spc One wrote:
Turrets can't be smartbombed or destroyed with defenders.


Missiles can't be countered with tracking disruptors and neuts while turrets like pulse lasers can be rendered useless by well skilled Curse pilot.

Also"superior" dual neut 425mm Cane dies to Curse. Only way to that Cane pilot to survive is having friends when that Curse pilot has to disengage.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5362 - 2012-10-26 19:54:34 UTC
Spc One wrote:
Turrets can't be smartbombed or destroyed with defenders.
Also turrets do instant damage, while missiles have to fly to target first to apply damage.
basically missiles can be turned off if enemy wants it.

Please, read the thread.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#5363 - 2012-10-26 19:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Jorma Morkkis wrote:

Missiles can't be countered with tracking disruptors and neuts while turrets like pulse lasers can be rendered useless by well skilled Curse pilot.

Missiles will be tracking disrupted:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit


And projectiles also can't be neuted.

Jorma Morkkis wrote:

Also"superior" dual neut 425mm Cane dies to Curse. Only way to that Cane pilot to survive is having friends when that Curse pilot has to disengage.

Because curse uses missiles...
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5364 - 2012-10-26 19:59:01 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Spc One wrote:
Turrets can't be smartbombed or destroyed with defenders.
Also turrets do instant damage, while missiles have to fly to target first to apply damage.
basically missiles can be turned off if enemy wants it.

Please, read the thread.


Please, train up missiles and use em in PvP in Caldari ships. :)
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5365 - 2012-10-26 20:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Please, train up missiles and use em in PvP in Caldari ships. :)

Please, post with your pvp alt, or go doing some pvp. :-)

PS : we are gone back to page 100... -_-'
Cazador 64
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5366 - 2012-10-26 20:02:28 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:

Ok, here's Grath http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=53846, and here's Cazador 64 . . well I can't find any pvp record on you. Also, Grath started eve in March of 2007. Cazador 64 started eve January of 2010.

right because everyone in EVE plays with one account.

Lili Lu wrote:

Have a tinfoil hat if you really think they for some reason care more for a mythical race of tribal quasi-criminal rebel ducttape users, and people who choose to play those, and hate a mythical race of corprate neo-fascist communal missile chuckers and the people that choose to play those characters. Of course maybe they secretly care more for a mythical race of slave-owning intolerant religious laser bumm warmers.


Right because we have no good reason to think the DEVs have no vested interest in this game for their own play style.
Its not like they have done things like this before. Never in EVE history have the DEVs done anything to favor one group of people over the other. I mean if they had the power to do this they would feed rare BPOs to a certain group of people so that they may have a advantage. But this is CCP and they would NEVER do anything like that ever. Shocked




Lili Lu wrote:
You are not going to whine your way


Why not it worked to get the HML nerf to happen in the first place. People Whined HML got nerfed.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5367 - 2012-10-26 20:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Spc One wrote:
And projectiles also can't be neuted.


True, but TDs work.

Spc One wrote:
Because curse uses missiles...


- Bonused tracking disruptors
- Bonused medium neuts

That Cane will never get to range where it can deliver that godly 800 dps, which is a bit over 2 km btw before effect from tracking disruptors.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5368 - 2012-10-26 20:11:33 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Please, train up missiles and use em in PvP in Caldari ships. :)

Please, post with your pvp alt, or go doing some pvp. :-)

PS : we are gone back to page 100... -_-'


you can see the combat record of an alt of mine, I will not post more of my alts. You have no first hand idea of missiles, which makes you not really someone whos opinion matters to me.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#5369 - 2012-10-26 20:11:35 UTC
Cazador 64 wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:

Ok, here's Grath http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=53846, and here's Cazador 64 . . well I can't find any pvp record on you. Also, Grath started eve in March of 2007. Cazador 64 started eve January of 2010.

right because everyone in EVE plays with one account.


I play with a single account generally as my computer starts to hate me with more than one logged in. I have every single gunnery and missile skill you can have and their relative specs trained up.

I pvp in every ship in the game at one point or another, and I diversified my portfolio to make me relatively nerf proof for that exact reason: If you put all of your eggs in one basket eventually CCP changes the basket.

You didn't play before the tengu, you don't remember when people used to use other ships besides the Tengu to do plexes in, you don't rembmer the time when there was torp ravens (also as to your other snide comments I own a fairly well fit torp Golem thats sitting mothballed since Heavy Missiles outclass every single other missile system in game).

The thing you fail to realize is that there arre gradients to the other guns, some guns perform better in some situations than other guns, you need to make choices.

Missiles aren't like that, there is only ever ONE missile system you ever need train and that is simply Heavy Missiles. That fact alone stands to reason that the heavies need an adjustment.

Why? Are other missile systems so much trash that they don't work as some of you would have us believe? No, not really, not at all. Rockets are in a pretty good place right now, Standards could use SOME love but largely function as intended, HAMS are getting an adjustment they desperately need and Torps, which already function just fine will benefit greatly from the change too. That just leaves cruise, which actually function without much problem, but are stifled by a game environment that has seen the death of the sniper of the years, its not that the missile system doesn't work, precision cruise work just fine at killing even small targets, its that the game doesn't leave room for those kind of boat.

So tell me more about why you don't use a different system than heavies (even though all the other systems work) and how that somehow doesn't validate them as needing adjustment..

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5370 - 2012-10-26 20:13:57 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
you can see the combat record of an alt of mine, I will not post more of my alts. You have no first hand idea of missiles, which makes you not really someone whos opinion matters to me.

I too can post records of a random highsec pvper.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#5371 - 2012-10-26 20:14:19 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Cazador 64 wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:

Ok, here's Grath http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=53846, and here's Cazador 64 . . well I can't find any pvp record on you. Also, Grath started eve in March of 2007. Cazador 64 started eve January of 2010.

right because everyone in EVE plays with one account.


I play with a single account generally as my computer starts to hate me with more than one logged in. I have every single gunnery and missile skill you can have and their relative specs trained up.

I pvp in every ship in the game at one point or another, and I diversified my portfolio to make me relatively nerf proof for that exact reason: If you put all of your eggs in one basket eventually CCP changes the basket.

You didn't play before the tengu, you don't remember when people used to use other ships besides the Tengu to do plexes in, you don't rembmer the time when there was torp ravens (also as to your other snide comments I own a fairly well fit torp Golem thats sitting mothballed since Heavy Missiles outclass every single other missile system in game).

The thing you fail to realize is that there arre gradients to the other guns, some guns perform better in some situations than other guns, you need to make choices.

Missiles aren't like that, there is only ever ONE missile system you ever need train and that is simply Heavy Missiles. That fact alone stands to reason that the heavies need an adjustment.

Why? Are other missile systems so much trash that they don't work as some of you would have us believe? No, not really, not at all. Rockets are in a pretty good place right now, Standards could use SOME love but largely function as intended, HAMS are getting an adjustment they desperately need and Torps, which already function just fine will benefit greatly from the change too. That just leaves cruise, which actually function without much problem, but are stifled by a game environment that has seen the death of the sniper of the years, its not that the missile system doesn't work, precision cruise work just fine at killing even small targets, its that the game doesn't leave room for those kind of boat.

So tell me more about why you don't use a different system than heavies (even though all the other systems work) and how that somehow doesn't validate them as needing adjustment..


I laughed pretty hard when they said you didn't know anything about game mechanics.
Lili Lu
#5372 - 2012-10-26 20:18:53 UTC
Cazador 64 wrote:
right because everyone in EVE plays with one account.


Of course people have more than one account. So, post with a character that has some pvp record if you want to comment on pvp use of weapons systems.

Cazador 64 wrote:
Right because we have no good reason to think the DEVs have no vested interest in this game for their own play style. Its not like they have done things like this before. Never in EVE history have the DEVs done anything to favor one group of people over the other. I mean if they had the power to do this they would feed rare BPOs to a certain group of people so that they may have a advantage. But this is CCP and they would NEVER do anything like that ever. Shocked


Well, I would hardly equate an actual example of a sad misguided dev from 5 or 6 years ago favoring his in-game real person buddies, to a suspision that a group of present game designers could have some mentally ill desire to persecute a mythical race in the game.

Cazador 64 wrote:
Why not it worked to get the HML nerf to happen in the first place. People Whined HML got nerfed.


I doubt it was complaints about HMs that got this change introduced to the game. If it was it would have happened a long time ago. It was probably fresh sets of eyes that asked why are there so many drakes and tengus being flown in this game while other ships in that same class are largely being ignored by the players. If you want to suspect "racial" favoritism on the part of the devs then it just as easily could be demonstrated by the immediate Myrm nerf but 3 years of Drake dominance for numbers of ships used.

Change has come. It calls for diversification and adaptation. There's only so many times you can run a blockade with a Tengu right? I've run a lot of missions in my day. But even I got sick and bored with it. Are there people who really want to spend the next 10 years running blockade in a Tengu over and over again?Lol
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#5373 - 2012-10-26 20:21:59 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Spc One wrote:
And projectiles also can't be neuted.


True, but TDs work.

Spc One wrote:
Because curse uses missiles...


- Bonused tracking disruptors
- Bonused medium neuts

That Cane will never get to range where it can deliver that godly 800 dps, which is a bit over 2 km before effect from tracking disruptors.



This is also a lie, the cane can easily drop a curse, stop making things up that you've obviously never experienced before. Having killed curses by myself in a Cane I can tell you that you are infact wrong.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5374 - 2012-10-26 20:24:58 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
This is also a lie, the cane can easily drop a curse, stop making things up that you've obviously never experienced before. Having killed curses by myself in a Cane I can tell you that you are infact wrong.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLI-XhxWEsY
Lili Lu
#5375 - 2012-10-26 20:25:01 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Please, train up missiles and use em in PvP in Caldari ships. :)

Please, post with your pvp alt, or go doing some pvp. :-)

PS : we are gone back to page 100... -_-'


you can see the combat record of an alt of mine, I will not post more of my alts. You have no first hand idea of missiles, which makes you not really someone whos opinion matters to me.


Noemi, Noemi. Straight

The argument is that you should post with your alleged combat alt. I linked Grath's eve-kill above. That does not mean I am Grath and pvp as Grath. Until you post itt under ROU, and say "Hi guys it's me Noemi," I and others will not believe that you have any experience with turrets and pvp.

Do you understand yet?
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5376 - 2012-10-26 20:30:54 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:


With EVERY weapon system we have long range ammo and short range ammo

Somehow You guys decided that caldari main LONG RANGE weapon t2 ammo will be short range, maybe give us snipe ammo variant then? PRecision for example (yes i see cons of that)?


navy ammo is the snipe ammo.

precision is the high tracking short range ammo, see javelin ammo for rails. fury is the hail ammo of missiles. Who cares if it only hits at 40 now, you never fight outside of that and if you really really need to just suffer the PAINFUL loss of 20dps by using navy missiles. Or use javelin HAMs because they rule now.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5377 - 2012-10-26 20:31:01 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Spc One wrote:
And projectiles also can't be neuted.


True, but TDs work.

Spc One wrote:
Because curse uses missiles...


- Bonused tracking disruptors
- Bonused medium neuts

That Cane will never get to range where it can deliver that godly 800 dps, which is a bit over 2 km before effect from tracking disruptors.



This is also a lie, the cane can easily drop a curse, stop making things up that you've obviously never experienced before. Having killed curses by myself in a Cane I can tell you that you are infact wrong.


While I dont agree with you on everything Grath, I think here you are correct - Jorma makes up stuff. Its the best to ignore him, simply not worth the time and effort to argue against his lies and bs-postings.

Best regards.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5378 - 2012-10-26 20:33:42 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Please, train up missiles and use em in PvP in Caldari ships. :)

Please, post with your pvp alt, or go doing some pvp. :-)

PS : we are gone back to page 100... -_-'


you can see the combat record of an alt of mine, I will not post more of my alts. You have no first hand idea of missiles, which makes you not really someone whos opinion matters to me.


Noemi, Noemi. Straight

The argument is that you should post with your alleged combat alt. I linked Grath's eve-kill above. That does not mean I am Grath and pvp as Grath. Until you post itt under ROU, and say "Hi guys it's me Noemi," I and others will not believe that you have any experience with turrets and pvp.

Do you understand yet?


I understand very well. And I said if you once and for all stay away from here as soon as I post with my alt I might really be tempted to do it. You said you wont, so wont I :) and honestly, I could care less about what *you* believe. You can believe in what you want. There are enough people here who seem to feel like I might have a point in what I am posting about and who dont think I have no credibility.

I will not continue this. Just not worth the time.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5379 - 2012-10-26 20:36:16 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
I understand very well. And I said if you once and for all stay away from here as soon as I post with my alt I might really be tempted to do it. You said you wont, so wont I :) and honestly, I could care less about what *you* believe. You can believe in what you want. There are enough people here who seem to feel like I might have a point in what I am posting about and who dont think I have no credibility.

I will not continue this. Just not worth the time.


So, Ryu isn't your combat alt after all. Who would have guessed? Roll
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#5380 - 2012-10-26 20:39:23 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
I understand very well. And I said if you once and for all stay away from here as soon as I post with my alt I might really be tempted to do it. You said you wont, so wont I :) and honestly, I could care less about what *you* believe. You can believe in what you want. There are enough people here who seem to feel like I might have a point in what I am posting about and who dont think I have no credibility.

I will not continue this. Just not worth the time.

You are avoiding the debate. You are fleeing. You are basicaly saying "I don't know how to counter your arguments nor how to convince you, so I use a falacious argument against your person to disqualify you from talking, and hence don't have to bother with the smart things you are saying."