Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Please look at the increase to explosion velocity on both standard HM and the precision missiles now. Cumulative 30% increase on damage to cruiser and smaller targets. In the age of sig tanking this is huge.

-Explosion radius increased by 12% (this is bad, reread my own info on missiles)
-Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity to +20%, increase damage to match T1 missiles (this is good)

so that is a boost to radius, boost to velocity, and boost to the damage on the missiles for smaller target. 3 different boosts to the damage done to smaller sig targets. That is a buff my friend.

Edit: I was missing something sorry, but still it looks like Precision are getting buffed, yes?

Why should heavy missiles hit frigs for full damage?

Oh, yeah... I'm so going to hit Dramiel with HPLs.

Yep you are right there .. he is just a Gallentean only, forgive him his lack of insight. What I find a bit disturbing though is his attitude .. he should really listen to people who actually skilled and used missiles IMO. Like all those other guys who fail to see how those changes are NOT a buff to precision like they think, but just a minor change which will not help to bring a now not so hot system to life. Best part is the "explosion radius has been buffed!!" thing .. OMG.

Medium pulses are small guns. And they do, in fact, have trouble hitting frigates if you fly poorly. Heavy Pulses are medium guns and find it almost impossible to hit a competently flown frigate without tracking mods+good flying or multiple webs. Even medium autocannons and blasters have trouble hitting frigates that get in close without at least one web or a bunch of tracking mods. Frigates can counter by orbiting close and bringing tracking disruptors.

Contrast this with HMLs, which hit small targets quite hard, always hit, and for which damage mitigation options are fairly limited.

actually heavy missiles are small missiles then.
Cruise are medium one and torps are big....so everything is comparable: BS - medium weapon system, BC - small weap sys and large....let capital fleet use large ones)

ah. this funny harbs with MPLs and Canes with 220 cannons, they just don't know, that they are using small weapons.

Irony mod off.

Gradation is not similar and it shouldn't be, really.

You have some...umm...wrong thinkings bout HML performance.
Actually...you will deal really low dmg against fast frig hulls.
It will be stable, but still awful with no chance of dealing full dmg.

Has any one brought up the reload time? Missile Launchers take 10 seconds, while guns take 5 not to mention the instant swap for lens.

Learn turret names please. If you put light missile launchers on your drake, you will hit frigates for full damage like a frigate. What he is saying is that naming in pulse turret is odd, and a small turret is named "medium pulse laser". It's exactly like missiles in fact : Heavy pulse, missiles and blasters are medium size weapons. Though, as a class, the cruiser size pulse laser barely hit frigates unless they are webbed and/or the cruiser/BC pilot is very good at piloting.

But I can't blame Noemi to don't know these things, she never flown a frigate. And she obviously never saw an Amarr cruiser BTW, not knowing what is a Heavy Pulse Laser.

By the way, I've just been killed by a hurricane today, so you certainly will say "I told ya, turrets hit frigates fine", but that's wrong : the cane completely neutralized me, so it manage to MWD off and then he was far enough to kill me. Otherwise, I would have had tanked him fine forever. Something you *cannot* do against HML unless you are AB + active tank fit. A similar drake would have web and TP the interceptor to apply consequent damage to it. Though, if you were flying frigates, you would know that tackling a drake leave you with something like 1 or 2 minutes of life expectancy if you are not AB+tanky. You can tank a turret ship *forever* in a frigate (an Oracle just paid it the hard way), even without any tank -- I read a story where someone killed a tornado with a velator ; it couldn't have been a drake instead of the tornado, because of HML.

Seeing this, I'm really sceptical about the knowledge of some missile specialists here...

Noemi, you know, I may never had fired a medium missile, but I fought them a lot more than you it seem, in conditions where these stats actually matter. How do you care for this when you shoot a BC ? HML hit cruisers very fine. "Your" killboard can attest it.

Though, I'd like to know from missiles experts that roam this thread : what is the problem of HAM and Torp ?

"too much damage" even though it's delayed and reduced with speed and sig... yeah, ok pro.

Yeah, those turrets that can hit any class ship for ~ full damage when webs/painters are used... regardless of size... or when traversal is low....

You have no ******* clue why missiles required all the previous buffs in their history or why people are arguing so adamantly against the nerf when it's 2 gd ships causing the problems, not the weapon itself.

This has nothing to do with the fact that it's a "damage nerf"... it has everything to do with the fact that there are 5 nerfs built into HML's that are crippling together with 1 small boost to t2s and a HAM small buff that is pretty meaningless considering it's the only CR weapon that "has a harder issue hitting smaller faster targets in close"

If the issue was really damage to frigs, then why didn't they just nerf Exp velocity and sig more rather than damage?

If the issue was range... OH wait.

If the issue was 2 ships, why not fix the ships.

When was the issue ever damage.... oh yeah, it wasn't unless you were flying a 6 launcher tengu with an ungodly 7.5% rof bonus on top of a damage bonus.

Learn your history.... the drake became the workhorse it has because of the massive speed nerf a few years back... that has nothing to do with damage, just with the mechanics related to size/speed... ie exp velocity and sig. The drake also has a disproportionate tank that completely voids the purpose of the Ferox and overwhelms any other BC class ship in game.... resist + buffer = easier logistics = more attractive.

If you knew these things, you'd realize that the nerfs make no sense in regards to the issue of the game and you'd quit your fricking dev fanboy fest.

Nobody here is saying don't nerf HMLs... they're saying nerf them properly... with common sense and some ability to show that you understand the game and the problems within it.

You can't compare missiles damage to other weapons when it's not the same... It's like comparing Artilleries to fricking rails or beams.... Again, learn your history, there's a reason they are as high as they currently are.... because they never competed well in the past at lower DPS.

I've already said there are a multitude of ways to nerf HML's that don't require a direct damage nerf... the primary being range.

And you should realize that those qualifiers that make turrets of any size always hit for near full damage don't apply to missiles in the same regard.... especially if you go and nerf Missile exp velocity and radius.

Why do I think you're just a dev in sheeps clothing... I've never once seen you disagree with their ideas yet history has shown they've had one disaster after another.... striking.