Player Features and Ideas Discussion

20% Reduction in damage for HML

Are you serious?

I'm finally able to get into a half decent skilled tengu post incursion nerf and now its pretty much useless. Their have been several major nerfs this year and almost all deal with nerfing the amount of isk a player can make while prices for ships/mods have vastly increased.

Drone nerf - No more drone poo, ship/mod prices rocketed.

Incursion nerf - can more isk running L4s, so why bother trying to get in a fleet?

Missile launcher nerf - No more running anoms/complexes in tengus

Tech Nerf - Tech (although still valuable) will steadily decrease taking isk out of alliances pockets/

All these nerfs this year and not a single buff to anything that isn't completely insignificant and useless (t1 frig buff WTF). Balancing making isk and Pvp'ing is already stupid being able to make 60mil or so per hour max. The only real way for newish players to make their own income is to buy and sell plex, I mean why rat for 12 hours when you can just spend money right CCP? I mean I would have thought you would be more interested in making it easier for players to have a decent income so they can do the only decent thing in the game (pvp), with F2P mmos springing up I'll probably just cancel my subscriptions, I really won't have the time to play this game anymore.

NERF online.

Seriously. Caldari already had the weakest line of PVP ships in the game and CCP just nerfed their two flag ships, the drake and the tengu.

Granted, Falcon is a fantastic ship, but it's not in anyway related to heavy missiles.

Lets take a look at Caldari ships in the medium/large size:

Ferox: useless.
Drake: Now basically a Rail Brutix with less damage and travel time for your damage.
Raven: Too much travel time, not enough damage; torpedoes broken, not worth it in the slot
Rokh: Making a comeback with the hybrid changes, Rails still kind of meh
Naga: great, not a missile boat, newer ship too so not subject to the Caldari sadness.
Eagle: awful.
Cerberus: awful.
Scorpion: slower version of the recons with no advantage.
Widow: Can't warp cloaked, but still very hot
Rook/Falcon: great ships, Rook uses HMLs sometimes, did okay damage with them (just under 300).
Caracal: doing mediocre, but its a cruiser
Moa/Osprey: awful
Blackbird: paper, but nice role
Onyx: no dps Onyx, it will live
Nighthawk: rarely used in pvp, glorified drake, subject to same issues
Vulture: booster ship, for our purposes, not measured
Tengu: Already the worst Covert Ops because of weak dps; obscene DPS with Acceleration Bay, this probably brings IT ALONE in line.

Lets call that Drake, Rokh, Naga, Rook, Falcon, Blackbird, Widow and Tengu as usable ships pre-nerf.

4 of those are jammers, so take those out. That leaves Drake, Rokh, Naga, Tengu. Drake and Tengu are getting nerfed, Tengu probably still usable but prohibitively expensive, Drake now sub-par for DPS, still a decent tank. That leaves Naga and Rokh for DPS, both capable of long-ranged setups or Blaster setups.

Where are the missile boats? They're not here, because they're now subject to tracking disrupting and are already the worst damage delivery platform this side of medium rail-guns in pvp.

By comparison Usable ships of the other races:
Gallente (admittedly the next weakest): Thorax, Vexor, Ishtar, Deimos (meh), Phobos, Megathron, Dominix, Sin (meh), Myrmidon (meh), Brutix (meh), Hyperion (meh), Proteus, Arazu, Lachesis, Talos, Astarte (MEH), Eos (meh, but booster ship)

Amarr: Arbitrator (meh), Omen Navy?, Abaddon, Armageddon, Apocalypse, Navy Apocalypse, Navy Geddon, Zealot, Sacrilege (meh), Devoter, Pilgrim, Curse (meh, but I love it), Legion. Redeemer, Harbinger (meh), Oracle, Absolution, Damnation

Minmatar: Stabber, Stabber Fleet, Rupture, Vagabond, Muninn (meh), Broadsword, Tornado, Tempest, Tempest Fleet Issue, Maelstrom, Typhoon (meh, but NC. used it as missile disruption with smartbombs), Huginn, Rapier, Loki, Cyclone (ASB loves this thing), Hurricane, Sleipnir, Claymore (meh, but booster ship).

That's a LOT of what we would call "usable" or "meh, usable" ships compared the the 8 that Caldari have. Admittedly, Gallente are the next weakest because they're the "wait until I get into range" race, but that's part of the packaged deal. By comparison, while training for Gallente, you're training all the support skills for Amarr, which opens you up to a completely different ship class. Caldari has some cross-over with Minmatar, but with no pure missile platforms, this leaves a lot of Caldari players shipping up, down, or out.

Svodola Darkfury (P.S. I fly Minmatar mostly, like most sane people).


[final edit for a TLDR]: The problem isn't that drakes are overpowered per se. It's that they are overpowered compared to their class. But already, nobody flies battlecruiser fleets against Drake fleets. All Tier 3 battlecruisers beat Drake fleet (WELL, Talos has trouble in numbers). All higher ship classes beat Drake fleet. You need to make Battlecruisers worth flying in numbers. Right now it's going to turn into "well I guess we train all our drake pilots for something else easy... how about Nagas? I mean, they're already halfway there amirite?"

It doesn't fix the usability of lower class ships; it just shifts focus from missile boats to gun boats for a while. And maybe that's a band-aid fix for now; nerf drakes to their counterparts until you can fix the class as a whole; but it really leaves Caldari wanting.

I thought we were just talking heavy missiles. Silly me, talking about the subject at hand.

So the Cerberus .. is now worth flying even less than it was before.

Feel free to look at the top 3 ships flown in EVE. I can pretty well gurantee it will almost always be drake>hurricane and then most likely tengu. These ships are overpowered and have been for quite a while now. Cries for a drake nerf have been heard for a very long time, and its about time CCP started to looking at why a tier 2 bc hull should be able to project 400 dps out to 80km with a 100k ehp tank for under 50mil.

So not only can't you actually read what I said (I said MISSILES as a weapon type, not Heavy Missiles), you're quoting out of context to try and support an argument against something I didn't say. Stay classy Haquer.

Let's quote it in full:

1 Heavy Missile Launcher II 78207
2 425mm AutoCannon II 20830
3 Heavy Pulse Laser II 15924
4 200mm AutoCannon II 14974
5 Mega Pulse Laser II 13406
6 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 11938
7 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 11414
8 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II 11344
9 150mm Light AutoCannon II 10500
10 720mm Howitzer Artillery II 9112
11 Light Neutron Blaster II 8393
12 Neutron Blaster Cannon II 7480
13 Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I 6692
14 425mm Railgun II 5687
15 800mm Repeating Artillery II 5526
16 Prototype 'Arbalest' Torpedo Launcher 5502
17 Light Ion Blaster II 5285
18 Heavy Neutron Blaster II 5264
19 Heavy Beam Laser II 5246
20 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I 5008

3 out of 4 of the weapons in bold are the same missile system type (heavy).
Torps are in there due to Stealth Bombers - they are almost not used outside of that ship class.

Not a single other missile system type makes an appearance.

Cool, but now TD are I WIN button, consider nerfing them a bit.

Ok, fine, but cut defender missles for the love of glob

Also if you want to fix the blob increase lock time for each ship locked on to a target. But mother noob, then people will just mass lock each other!

Ok then why can any ship lock more than 3/4 targets at a time ? Make 3 targets the max for battleships, and we'll see how common wasting your few locks works out for people. But what about EW? You need lots of locks as a logi ship or EW ship! Easy give these ships more than 3 locked targets, but they won't lock up 4 allies, leaving them with only 2 targets, especially considering how much long lock times would get on important targets. Choosing who to lock on to be comes part of the game, once your Target is down you will want to allready have targets locked.

Making targeting such a limited asest gives importance to who you lock on to, and gives EW frigates a huge new role and advantage over larger EW hulls, they can switch targets faster.

Obviouly have a limit more than 20 people and the base Sig radius of the ship stops going down. Spilting up the blob as the team with better squad leaders leading groups of 20-30, Becuase past that you'll have more effect damage if you spilt up the licks, timing it together to get max locks on important targets while you shoot at something else.

We will adjust by not using missile ships.

People, start training for turret ships.

That would be perfectly fine, if the Caldari HACs weren't complete ****.