These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4961 - 2012-10-20 12:17:46 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

That question is irrelevant.


In fact its not irrelevant at all, but I understand your answer - you have no first hand experience with missiles and Caldari. Thanks.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

And now, explosion radiius of HAM will be buffed. Isn't it exactly what HAM needed ? Duh. Oh, and web, do you know it ? Cool module in fact.


I know webs, I know TPs. Explosion radius will be buffed a little bit by a skill applying to it which didnt apply before. We will see how it works. My bet goes for HAM will still not be first choice or on par with first choice for close combat. At least not on Caldari hulls. We will see if I am wrong. But I think you are :)

And you still don't have answered the only question that matter : what does HAM and Torp need ?

BTW, no, missile experience is irrelevant if you are smart enough to argue and discuss my arguments. That is basic rhetoric : people may be whoever they want, they may even die eventually, but the words are still there, and they are not less true because of the death of who said them. Only the words matter here, not the people writing them. I don't want to believe you but to understand you.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4962 - 2012-10-20 12:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
I know webs, I know TPs.


And "the only problem" is that you have to lose tank to fit those? Am I right?


no, you are wrong :) but your postings dont matter to me anymore until you post your combat alt, so why do I even answer. :)
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4963 - 2012-10-20 12:55:03 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:


BTW, no, missile experience is irrelevant if you are smart enough to argue and discuss my arguments. That is basic rhetoric : people may be whoever they want, they may even die eventually, but the words are still there, and they are not less true because of the death of who said them. Only the words matter here, not the people writing them. I don't want to believe you but to understand you.


Go fly Caldari missile ships and learn first hand. If you dont want to - fine. But dont expect others then to explain everything from the very beginning. Its just boring to do so, esp. since others here have done that already. :)
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4964 - 2012-10-20 13:08:12 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
If one just takes the numbers then a CM Raven will kill almost everything on long ranges. In game it does not, at least thats my perception. Do you guys disagree?

Why ? Is it because it's bad ? Or is it because people never tryed it recently ?



Thats exactly what I mean. Someone with this idea cant get help by words. Go out, fly it, enjoy.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4965 - 2012-10-20 13:08:38 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Go fly Caldari missile ships and learn first hand. If you dont want to - fine. But dont expect others then to explain everything from the very beginning. Its just boring to do so, esp. since others here have done that already. :)

You still never had pointed what the problem of HAM and Torp was beside damage application. Maybe there is not any other problem ?

Maybe you are lazy, but maybe you don't know because you don't even understand how your weapon system work, or maybe you are wrong ? Maybe you are that stupid ? Who knows if you don't want to talk...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4966 - 2012-10-20 13:13:53 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Go fly Caldari missile ships and learn first hand. If you dont want to - fine. But dont expect others then to explain everything from the very beginning. Its just boring to do so, esp. since others here have done that already. :)

You still never had pointed what the problem of HAM and Torp was beside damage application. Maybe there is not any other problem ?

Maybe you are lazy, but maybe you don't know because you don't even understand how your weapon system work, or maybe you are wrong ? Maybe you are that stupid ? Who knows if you don't want to talk...


No, it's because she wants one sized missile system for everything.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4967 - 2012-10-20 13:38:19 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Go fly Caldari missile ships and learn first hand. If you dont want to - fine. But dont expect others then to explain everything from the very beginning. Its just boring to do so, esp. since others here have done that already. :)

You still never had pointed what the problem of HAM and Torp was beside damage application. Maybe there is not any other problem ?

Maybe you are lazy, but maybe you don't know because you don't even understand how your weapon system work, or maybe you are wrong ? Maybe you are that stupid ? Who knows if you don't want to talk...


No, it's because she wants one sized missile system for everything.


wrong again, and so easy to see for anyone who cares to read my postings here.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4968 - 2012-10-20 14:01:11 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
wrong again, and so easy to see for anyone who cares to read my postings here.


Maybe torps aren't meant for frig killing?
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4969 - 2012-10-20 14:06:23 UTC
I found it ! She want 70km ranged HAM and frig killing torpedoes !
Omarosas
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4970 - 2012-10-20 14:09:11 UTC
Time to train up turret skills and abandon missiles...what a waste of SP
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4971 - 2012-10-20 14:32:01 UTC
While you two clowns (one with no clue at all and the other with no Caldari or missile experience apart from being killed by them) go on with your really valuable posting, I still hope some others get it :)

Bouh Revetoile wrote:
I found it ! She want 70km ranged HAM and frig killing torpedoes !


Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
wrong again, and so easy to see for anyone who cares to read my postings here.


Maybe torps aren't meant for frig killing?


I should have known you were trolls from the moment on when this Raven fitting was posted/Raven was considered to be an option. So yeah, have to take that one.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4972 - 2012-10-20 14:43:07 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:


You have no real solo kill, so why are we reading you ?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4973 - 2012-10-20 14:49:52 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
While you two clowns (one with no clue at all and the other with no Caldari or missile experience apart from being killed by them) go on with your really valuable posting, I still hope some others get it :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYezgyi3M80
Vokradacka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4974 - 2012-10-20 17:13:03 UTC
Sry guys , but torps ill get insignificant buff .. they ill be still sux . = caldari small weapons sux , caldari large weapons sux , caldari medium weapons mediocre ( nerf HML , little buffed HAMs) ...deal with it . train winmatar as rest of us .Cool
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4975 - 2012-10-20 17:27:46 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:


It's generally more useful to try to understand WHY people disagree with you rather than assuming that they are all fools who lack your wisdom and insight.

In any case, if CCP agrees with you then no problem. Missiles will be nerfed and, in your opinion, no one will care. Caldari pilots will go on as they always do, their main (and, in some respects, only) combat ship will be that much less effective, but they won't mind because they will know that one day, some day, CCP will fix their other ships and weapons. On that magical day some years from now Caldari pilots will log in to discover that they finally have working versions of the ships and weapons the other races enjoy today, and the millions of skill points they invested will suddenly have value.

But it is possible that you are wrong.

It is possible that some Caldari players -- perhaps hundreds or even thousands -- are tired of waiting for magical "some days" and are sick of seeing the little that they do have nerfed. It is possible that Caldari players will not understand or accept that CCPs solution to broken ships like the Cerberus is to nerf it some more. It's possible that hundreds or even thousands of Caldari players were already distrustful or even angry with CCP even prior to all this. It's possible.

You don't agree with me, but I think CCP is playing with dynamite. If they keep kicking it, as they have promised to do, it might very well explode. I think CCP needs to take a step back and give some serious thought to the Caldari situation overall. They need to stop talking nerfs and start talking about fixes.

In my opinion.


this may have been a more gracious response than i deserve so a hat tipping to u o`7

caldari are used in pvp and pve. and not just drakes and tengus. Falcons, rokhs scorps etc are quite common.
because of this, i think the premise that caldari are a broken race is simply wrong as long as ppl are happy to fly them in the numbers they do. not every caldari ship is being flown by a die hard caldari roleplayer. ppl choose to fly these ships because they are effective, and in some cases, the leaders of their fields. Every single race has its ships that dnt see much use, not just caldari

similarly, the near total absence of medium beams and rails would also suggest there is some kind of balance gap between them and the other weapons in their niche (it is the HML's that need changing). This nerf is attempting to address that, and future expansions will likely address the balance gaps (including the ones for the cerberus and nighthawk) between certain ships.

ppl can be (over) dramatic about these changes if they want, but i'm betting 500mil isk and a meal of hardware that they are a minority

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Cerlin
#4976 - 2012-10-20 17:50:25 UTC
"Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit"

Can we please have this back in? It was finally making ewar changes legit and give missiles a way to buff themselves with tracking enhancers. As it stands a TD frig cant tackle a missile boat well, and you are keeping this trend up. Why take this out? Please add at least some form of this so TD can still be useful. Why does it feel like ECM is the only type of EWAR that actually works? Please change this back.

I do a lot of small frig/ship pvp and this change was one of the best this patch. Without this and now only a 10% nerf to HM damage you are changing very little. And for a small ship, you are making the HM hit HARDER with no way to counter (which would be the TD) change. Why are we showing so much love to the battle cruiser weapon EVERYONE uses and neglecting the frig sid?
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4977 - 2012-10-20 17:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
Cerlin wrote:
Without this and now only a 10% nerf to HM damage you are changing very little. And for a small ship, you are making the HM hit HARDER


how so? Please explain how you come to this conclusion :) hint: you might have missed the changes to explosion radius of precisions ...
Mazzerri Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4978 - 2012-10-20 18:02:44 UTC
So if I understand the modification, CCP wanted to decrease the range of HM's but in turn increased their effective range. Okay, I can work with that because it is nothing I was not use to but then bring back 60% of the damge which was going to be taken awy from Heavy Missiles? Wait, there is more!! The best counter I have heard in years (tracking disruptors on missiles) gets pushed back for a long time. Why even do all this work for such a small change. Well besides the fact you might have bad a missile boat harder to tackle then an AC boat. Disapprove
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4979 - 2012-10-20 18:30:21 UTC
Mazzerri Aurilen wrote:
So if I understand the modification, CCP wanted to decrease the range of HM's but in turn increased their effective range. Okay, I can work with that because it is nothing I was not use to but then bring back 60% of the damge which was going to be taken awy from Heavy Missiles? Wait, there is more!! The best counter I have heard in years (tracking disruptors on missiles) gets pushed back for a long time. Why even do all this work for such a small change. Well besides the fact you might have bad a missile boat harder to tackle then an AC boat. Disapprove


I really dont get the point of your posting, what do you mean with "increased their effective range"? :)
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4980 - 2012-10-20 18:35:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Cerlin wrote:
Without this and now only a 10% nerf to HM damage you are changing very little. And for a small ship, you are making the HM hit HARDER


how so? Please explain how you come to this conclusion :) hint: you might have missed the changes to explosion radius of precisions ...

Hint : look at the explosion velocity.

BTW, ALL HM have an explosion radius nerf. With the counter buff for precision, that mean that precision missiles will hit frigates for the exact same proportion of damage than before. BUT, precision damage are BUFFED, so HML will hurt frigates MORE !

And remember these stats are without skills.