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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4781 - 2012-10-17 08:38:37 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Where is the link for your combat alt? Go play EFT again Jorma.


No need to go back to EFT. I don't even use EFT btw. Unlike someone else, I actually fly all T1 battlecruisers and use all weapon systems.

Starr FFox wrote:
Ok lets go with cane arty thebn still far supirior to drakes current lmedium range dp output.


When shooting stationary target at 70 km:
- 720mm Cane does 275 dps with Tremor
- HML Drake does 462 dps with Fury

When shooting moving target at 9 km:
- 720mm Cane does 432 dps with Quake if it can hit the target
- HML Drake does 462 dps with Fury


I fly all BC too, not all on this toon though. I cant see any combat record for you, so I cant judge if you know about this topic here.

Funny thing though that all those guys who ranted about that thing when I did not reveal a name before are now not saying a single word. Revealing, again :)

And Jorma, when you post some numbers here, it would be smart to give also the used fittings. Your numbers dont seem to fit. Apart from that (has been said numerous times) it does not make sense to just take range/DPS into comparison. Eve is much more complex than this. If it would be just about range/DPS, then agreed, everyone in BC would fly a Drake. Dont you wonder why it is NOT like that? :)

Btw, I dont think this case is lost. It will be going on testserver, and then people who care will see. Its not about me, never was .. I am fine, all l5 gunnery too (except some specs, but heh), its about those who like to be dedicated to a race/signature weapon. Just again - imagine how you would feel if for example all atm working medium and large projectiles would be nerfed, and in exchange you get some minor adjustment to stuff which is no real issue right now. How would that feel? :)
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4782 - 2012-10-17 09:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Noemi Nagano wrote:
And Jorma, when you post some numbers here, it would be smart to give also the used fittings. Your numbers dont seem to fit. Apart from that (has been said numerous times) it does not make sense to just take range/DPS into comparison. Eve is much more complex than this. If it would be just about range/DPS, then agreed, everyone in BC would fly a Drake. Dont you wonder why it is NOT like that? :)

Btw, I dont think this case is lost. It will be going on testserver, and then people who care will see. Its not about me, never was .. I am fine, all l5 gunnery too (except some specs, but heh), its about those who like to be dedicated to a race/signature weapon. Just again - imagine how you would feel if for example all atm working medium and large projectiles would be nerfed, and in exchange you get some minor adjustment to stuff which is no real issue right now. How would that feel? :)

First, it's not dps/range numbers only, that's true : although dps/range is better with HML, actual damage application is FAR BETTER with HML. Do I need a fit and numbers to prove it ? Because, if you know the turrets system as much as you are saying, I shouldn't need it. As someone said, hiting an AB frig at 60km with T2 long range ammo and arties apply around 4 dps.

Truth is, if it's not everyone, it's a LOT of people who fly drakes, EVEN IN LOWSEC, even YOU in lowsec. When a ship can do everything, it's called OP. Gess what ? We find the drake everywhere : from nullsec blob warfare to NPC nullsec small gangs, from lowsec to wormhole, and in every pve activity but incursions. And all this with HML.

As for the "minor adjustments", you must be kiding, because 25% for damage application to all short range missiles + grid buff for HAM + working T2 ammo is more of what I call HUGE.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4783 - 2012-10-17 10:29:25 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:


I fly all BC too, not all on this toon though. I cant see any combat record for you, so I cant judge if you know about this topic here.

Funny thing though that all those guys who ranted about that thing when I did not reveal a name before are now not saying a single word. Revealing, again :)

And Jorma, when you post some numbers here, it would be smart to give also the used fittings. Your numbers dont seem to fit. Apart from that (has been said numerous times) it does not make sense to just take range/DPS into comparison. Eve is much more complex than this. If it would be just about range/DPS, then agreed, everyone in BC would fly a Drake. Dont you wonder why it is NOT like that? :)

Btw, I dont think this case is lost. It will be going on testserver, and then people who care will see. Its not about me, never was .. I am fine, all l5 gunnery too (except some specs, but heh), its about those who like to be dedicated to a race/signature weapon. Just again - imagine how you would feel if for example all atm working medium and large projectiles would be nerfed, and in exchange you get some minor adjustment to stuff which is no real issue right now. How would that feel? :)


if they nerfed arties because of their high alpha and buffed auto's, i wouldnt cry like this.
if they nerfed blasters to make rails more viable, i wouldnt ask for my hybrid SP's back
if they nerfed the optimal of pulses and buffed beams dps i wouldn't say that the entire race is no longer viable and say hundreds will un-sub despite the fact that beams are even more rare than HAMs in pvp.

if u dedicated ur entire skill tree to a single race and a single weapon system because it could give u everything, then u deserve every bit of this nerf. eve is about adaptation.

specialising will get u ahead in specific roles but partly why minmatar are very successful is they are the most versatile, yet skill intensive, race. They just can't specialise like the other races.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4784 - 2012-10-17 11:32:32 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if u dedicated ur entire skill tree to a single race and a single weapon system because it could give u everything, then u deserve every bit of this nerf. eve is about adaptation.

specialising will get u ahead in specific roles but partly why minmatar are very successful is they are the most versatile, yet skill intensive, race. They just can't specialise like the other races.

While I agree with the rest; No. Eve is about the sandbox, it's about doing anything you like; as long as it's within the constraints given to you by the game and the EULA. We can say that players should and it's highly recommended to crosstrain to different ships or weapon systems, but it doesn't and should never mean in any way that a player can't stick to one. That's stupid and completely contradictive to what the game is about.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4785 - 2012-10-17 11:34:59 UTC
Sofia Wolf wrote:
Fozzie do you plan to reduce power requirements for armour plates? With new reduced cane power grid I’m having trouble seeing how armor cane will remain viable. Armor tanking is already less favourite choice on canes compared to shield tanking, and given that shield tanks are less power hungry then armor tanks this disparity will grow even bigger.



I hope not. Cane is allready OP. And with these HML nerfs Cane should get nerfed even more tbh. -15% to ac falloff etc.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4786 - 2012-10-17 12:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
Aldeb Haraz wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We base our balancing decisions on the good of the game....



They need to be good enough that people from other races wish, if only briely, that they had trained to fly them. Right now that’s not the case. Ever. Even with this winter update. The opposite is always true. .


Right, all those Caldari ships are trash. Starting at the bottom:

Griffin
Merlin
Hawk
Harpy
Kitsune
Flycatcher
CN Hookbill
Blackbird
Falcon
Rook
Basilisk
Onyx
Tengu
Ferox
Drake
Vulture
Rokh
Widow
Nightmare
Rattlesnake
Chimera

These ships make up a large portion of the Caldari lineup and are all extremely relevant in PVP. They are all viable, and usually the best ship in their class. The myth that has been perpetuated that Caldari is trash in PVP and is only successful because of HML ships is factually wrong and should be put to rest.

Come winter, we also see the rest of the cruisers brought up: the Osprey becomes a strong support ship, the Caracal very effective at applying DPS at medium range, the Moa a decent shield brawler, and even forgotten ships like NH and Cerb can now make decent HAM fits.



I added comments you forgot to type there.

Chimera - worst carrier in game.
Rattle and nightmare faction ships not really caldari.
Rokh - Mediocre (maelstrom does it better)
Vulture - crap
Drake - Well everyone has own opinions but fact is that cane is better and OP
Tengu - ZOMG OP tengu
Ferox - LOL worst ship in game. Kinda like prophecy but prophecy can even bait.
Onyx - Nice shield hic
Basilisk - Good shield logi
Rook - Fail combat recon. Useless (minnie combat recon does it better)
Falcon - Nice force recon. Good cloaky ECM ship
Blackbird - LOL suicide ECM boat or resebo alt. Used mostly by E-UNI
CN Hookbill - Nice frigate but still faction
Flycatcher - Works but not as good as sabre
Kitsune - Nice ECM frig. But not too many places for viable usage
Harpy - Nice AF frig. Good example of good caldari boats.
Hawk - Ok missile based AF
Merlin - Pretty decent t1 caldari hull
Griffin - Suicide ECM frig. Bit like blackbird. Prolly used mostly by E-UNI

Edited to prevent tarded trolling
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4787 - 2012-10-17 12:44:58 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:

I added comments you forgot to type there.


Chimera - worst carrier in game.
==> I'd like some details, because I hadn't heard about the Nidhoggur to be so much better. Chimera is "only" a shield archon arfter all...
Rattle and nightmare faction ships not really caldari.
Widow - crap (vargur does it better)
==> Vargur don't have ECM... Maybe you were speaking about the Panther ? Haha !
Rokh - Mediocre (maelstrom does it better)
==> tell this to PL ? Maelstom don't do it better, except for alpha.
Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
==> except when you need siege warfare link ? Yes, tengu is better, as is the loki versus the vulture.
Drake - Well everyone has own opinions but fact is that cane is better and OP
==> cane is OP and is being nerfed because it deserves it ; HML deserve it too.
Tengu - ZOMG OP tengu
Ferox - LOL worst ship in game. Kinda like prophecy but prophecy can even bait.
==> you must haven't flown it since the hybrid buff...
Onyx - Nice shield hic
Basilisk - Good shield logi
Rook - Fail combat recon. Useless (minnie combat recon does it better)
==> minie combat recon don't have ECM...
Falcon - Nice force recon. Good cloaky ECM ship
Blackbird - LOL suicide ECM boat or resebo alt. Used mostly by E-UNI
==> like any other T1 cruiser ?
CN Hookbill - Nice frigate but still faction
Flycatcher - Works but not as good as sabre
Kitsune - Nice ECM frig. But not too many places for viable usage
Harpy - Nice AF frig. Good example of good caldari boats.
Hawk - Ok missile based AF
Merlin - Pretty decent t1 caldari hull
==> I like your appelation "pretty decent". :-)
Griffin - Suicide ECM frig. Bit like blackbird. Prolly used mostly by E-UNI
==> like all EWAR T1 frigs ?


Funny exercise BTW.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#4788 - 2012-10-17 12:48:27 UTC
Yeah lighten up guys, ditch the HMLs. All aboard the HAM train! They're going to be awesome.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4789 - 2012-10-17 13:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:

I added comments you forgot to type there.


Chimera - worst carrier in game.
==> I'd like some details, because I hadn't heard about the Nidhoggur to be so much better. Chimera is "only" a shield archon arfter all...
Rattle and nightmare faction ships not really caldari.
Widow - crap (vargur does it better)
==> Vargur don't have ECM... Maybe you were speaking about the Panther ? Haha !
Rokh - Mediocre (maelstrom does it better)
==> tell this to PL ? Maelstom don't do it better, except for alpha.
Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
==> except when you need siege warfare link ? Yes, tengu is better, as is the loki versus the vulture.
Drake - Well everyone has own opinions but fact is that cane is better and OP
==> cane is OP and is being nerfed because it deserves it ; HML deserve it too.
Tengu - ZOMG OP tengu
Ferox - LOL worst ship in game. Kinda like prophecy but prophecy can even bait.
==> you must haven't flown it since the hybrid buff...
Onyx - Nice shield hic
Basilisk - Good shield logi
Rook - Fail combat recon. Useless (minnie combat recon does it better)
==> minie combat recon don't have ECM...
Falcon - Nice force recon. Good cloaky ECM ship
Blackbird - LOL suicide ECM boat or resebo alt. Used mostly by E-UNI
==> like any other T1 cruiser ?
CN Hookbill - Nice frigate but still faction
Flycatcher - Works but not as good as sabre
Kitsune - Nice ECM frig. But not too many places for viable usage
Harpy - Nice AF frig. Good example of good caldari boats.
Hawk - Ok missile based AF
Merlin - Pretty decent t1 caldari hull
==> I like your appelation "pretty decent". :-)
Griffin - Suicide ECM frig. Bit like blackbird. Prolly used mostly by E-UNI
==> like all EWAR T1 frigs ?


Funny exercise BTW.


Chimera - worst carrier in game.
==> I'd like some details, because I hadn't heard about the Nidhoggur to be so much better. Chimera is "only" a shield archon arfter all...

Nidhoggur is good carrier with its repping bonuses that can be armor tanked. Chimera is not good in armor capital fleets.

Widow - crap (vargur does it better)
==> Vargur don't have ECM... Maybe you were speaking about the Panther ? Haha !

Actually i did confuse golem to widow.


Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
==> except when you need siege warfare link ? Yes, tengu is better, as is the loki versus the vulture.

When you need siege warfare link. Yes. Both are fleet command ships and both can fit siege warfare links.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Claymore
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulture


Rook - Fail combat recon. Useless (minnie combat recon does it better)
==> minie combat recon don't have ECM...

I do know it doesnt have ECM. And i wouldnt even want it to have ECM. But instead i would want rook to have decent tank and webifier bonus and no ECM at all. Or even point range bonus. Or even neut range bonus...


Blackbird - LOL suicide ECM boat or resebo alt. Used mostly by E-UNI
==> like any other T1 cruiser ?

So what other race have useless suicide ECM hulls? And why is that only e-uni uses them?


Dont know about exercise but funny might be true..
Doddy
Excidium.
#4790 - 2012-10-17 13:23:24 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:
Aldeb Haraz wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We base our balancing decisions on the good of the game....



They need to be good enough that people from other races wish, if only briely, that they had trained to fly them. Right now that’s not the case. Ever. Even with this winter update. The opposite is always true. .


Right, all those Caldari ships are trash. Starting at the bottom:

Griffin
Merlin
Hawk
Harpy
Kitsune
Flycatcher
CN Hookbill
Blackbird
Falcon
Rook
Basilisk
Onyx
Tengu
Ferox
Drake
Vulture
Rokh
Widow
Nightmare
Rattlesnake
Chimera

These ships make up a large portion of the Caldari lineup and are all extremely relevant in PVP. They are all viable, and usually the best ship in their class. The myth that has been perpetuated that Caldari is trash in PVP and is only successful because of HML ships is factually wrong and should be put to rest.

Come winter, we also see the rest of the cruisers brought up: the Osprey becomes a strong support ship, the Caracal very effective at applying DPS at medium range, the Moa a decent shield brawler, and even forgotten ships like NH and Cerb can now make decent HAM fits.



I added comments you forgot to type there.

Chimera - worst carrier in game.
Rattle and nightmare faction ships not really caldari.
Widow - crap (vargur does it better)
Rokh - Mediocre (maelstrom does it better)
Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
Drake - Well everyone has own opinions but fact is that cane is better and OP
Tengu - ZOMG OP tengu
Ferox - LOL worst ship in game. Kinda like prophecy but prophecy can even bait.
Onyx - Nice shield hic
Basilisk - Good shield logi
Rook - Fail combat recon. Useless (minnie combat recon does it better)
Falcon - Nice force recon. Good cloaky ECM ship
Blackbird - LOL suicide ECM boat or resebo alt. Used mostly by E-UNI
CN Hookbill - Nice frigate but still faction
Flycatcher - Works but not as good as sabre
Kitsune - Nice ECM frig. But not too many places for viable usage
Harpy - Nice AF frig. Good example of good caldari boats.
Hawk - Ok missile based AF
Merlin - Pretty decent t1 caldari hull
Griffin - Suicide ECM frig. Bit like blackbird. Prolly used mostly by E-UNI


Erm you have no clue, this is one of the funniest posts on these forums tbh.

I mean how is "vargur does it better" a comment on the widow..... It does missioning better i guess ...
Durkuh Durka
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4791 - 2012-10-17 13:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Durkuh Durka
Keko Khaan wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
[quote=Keko Khaan]
I added comments you forgot to type there.



Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
==> except when you need siege warfare link ? Yes, tengu is better, as is the loki versus the vulture.

When you need siege warfare link. Yes. Both are fleet command ships and both can fit siege warfare links.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Claymore
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulture


He means the vulture gets a bonus specific to siege warfare that is above and beyone that of a Claymore.

specifically:
Vulture
3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level

Claymore:
3% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links per level

Yeah I know I'm being trolled.
Deez Icho
Perkone
Caldari State
#4792 - 2012-10-17 13:32:20 UTC
If we tell about ships, First of all Caldari haven't pirate faction ships at all. What this mean: If you learn caldari race technology (ships with missile or hybrid weapons) this skills points will be useless with most of all pirate faction ships.

Lets see them:
Guristas ships base on caldari hulls, but you galent weapons - drones as main weapon. You need to learn ALL galent technology to drive this ships.
Sansha's ships base on ammar hulls, use ammar weapons, but as defense use shields like caldari ships. You need to learn ALL ammar technology to drive this one.

Other races can learn only spaceship command skills of another race and can use one type of pirate faction, they dont need learn both spaceship command skills and weapon skills. Caldari need faction shield (armor) ship with missile weapon system where

Why drake and tengu so OP? Its not due weapon system, it's case they are easiest ships to use in eve. It's just a lot of tank, when don't need other actions to maintain it.

Fury HML do very small amount of damage to any frig size ships, while other weapon system (not missile) can deal maximum without extra ordinary actions. Fury HML deal small damage to any AB fited ships (except BS). In that case missile on it's optimal must do more raw damage than other systems.

Want to fix caldari? PLZ remake, remove explosion velocity, add another factor (work with explosion radius, ship signature and speed of target, or transversal speed) but not separate.

Any value changes don't fix problem.
Doddy
Excidium.
#4793 - 2012-10-17 13:32:37 UTC
Durkuh Durka wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
[quote=Keko Khaan]
I added comments you forgot to type there.



Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
==> except when you need siege warfare link ? Yes, tengu is better, as is the loki versus the vulture.

When you need siege warfare link. Yes. Both are fleet command ships and both can fit siege warfare links.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Claymore
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulture


He means the vulture gets a bonus specific to siege warfare that is above and beyone that of a Claymore.

specifically:
Vulture
3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level

Claymore:
3% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links per level

Yeah I know I'm being trolled.


Not to mention the vulture has a so much better tank its not even funny.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4794 - 2012-10-17 13:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
Doddy wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:
Aldeb Haraz wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We base our balancing decisions on the good of the game....



They need to be good enough that people from other races wish, if only briely, that they had trained to fly them. Right now that’s not the case. Ever. Even with this winter update. The opposite is always true. .


Right, all those Caldari ships are trash. Starting at the bottom:

Griffin
Merlin
Hawk
Harpy
Kitsune
Flycatcher
CN Hookbill
Blackbird
Falcon
Rook
Basilisk
Onyx
Tengu
Ferox
Drake
Vulture
Rokh
Widow
Nightmare
Rattlesnake
Chimera

These ships make up a large portion of the Caldari lineup and are all extremely relevant in PVP. They are all viable, and usually the best ship in their class. The myth that has been perpetuated that Caldari is trash in PVP and is only successful because of HML ships is factually wrong and should be put to rest.

Come winter, we also see the rest of the cruisers brought up: the Osprey becomes a strong support ship, the Caracal very effective at applying DPS at medium range, the Moa a decent shield brawler, and even forgotten ships like NH and Cerb can now make decent HAM fits.



I added comments you forgot to type there.

Chimera - worst carrier in game.
Rattle and nightmare faction ships not really caldari.
Widow - crap (vargur does it better)
Rokh - Mediocre (maelstrom does it better)
Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
Drake - Well everyone has own opinions but fact is that cane is better and OP
Tengu - ZOMG OP tengu
Ferox - LOL worst ship in game. Kinda like prophecy but prophecy can even bait.
Onyx - Nice shield hic
Basilisk - Good shield logi
Rook - Fail combat recon. Useless (minnie combat recon does it better)
Falcon - Nice force recon. Good cloaky ECM ship
Blackbird - LOL suicide ECM boat or resebo alt. Used mostly by E-UNI
CN Hookbill - Nice frigate but still faction
Flycatcher - Works but not as good as sabre
Kitsune - Nice ECM frig. But not too many places for viable usage
Harpy - Nice AF frig. Good example of good caldari boats.
Hawk - Ok missile based AF
Merlin - Pretty decent t1 caldari hull
Griffin - Suicide ECM frig. Bit like blackbird. Prolly used mostly by E-UNI


Erm you have no clue, this is one of the funniest posts on these forums tbh.

I mean how is "vargur does it better" a comment on the widow..... It does missioning better i guess ...



Funniest post on forum. Oh really? Are you serious? Mixing golem to widow is funniest thing you have ever seen on eve forums? Get a life pls.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4795 - 2012-10-17 13:52:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
Durkuh Durka wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
[quote=Keko Khaan]
I added comments you forgot to type there.



Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
==> except when you need siege warfare link ? Yes, tengu is better, as is the loki versus the vulture.

When you need siege warfare link. Yes. Both are fleet command ships and both can fit siege warfare links.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Claymore
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulture


He means the vulture gets a bonus specific to siege warfare that is above and beyone that of a Claymore.

specifically:
Vulture
3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level

Claymore:
3% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links per level

Yeah I know I'm being trolled.


Well maybe he did. But same goes with claymore and skirmish links. Ppl gonna use tengus and lokis for links anyways...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4796 - 2012-10-17 14:32:19 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
Just again - imagine how you would feel if for example all atm working medium and large projectiles would be nerfed, and in exchange you get some minor adjustment to stuff which is no real issue right now. How would that feel? :)


"Whatever. I just use hybrids and lasers. Small projectile turrets are more fun anyway." Big smile

But if they would remove gunnery from the game...
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4797 - 2012-10-17 14:38:22 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:
Sofia Wolf wrote:
Fozzie do you plan to reduce power requirements for armour plates? With new reduced cane power grid I’m having trouble seeing how armor cane will remain viable. Armor tanking is already less favourite choice on canes compared to shield tanking, and given that shield tanks are less power hungry then armor tanks this disparity will grow even bigger.



I hope not. Cane is allready OP. And with these HML nerfs Cane should get nerfed even more tbh. -15% to ac falloff etc.



Hurricane doesn't have a falloff bonus killer.
Doddy
Excidium.
#4798 - 2012-10-17 14:49:03 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:
Aldeb Haraz wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:



They need to be good enough that people from other races wish, if only briely, that they had trained to fly them. Right now that’s not the case. Ever. Even with this winter update. The opposite is always true. .


Right, all those Caldari ships are trash. Starting at the bottom:

Griffin
Merlin
Hawk
Harpy
Kitsune
Flycatcher
CN Hookbill
Blackbird
Falcon
Rook
Basilisk
Onyx
Tengu
Ferox
Drake
Vulture
Rokh
Widow
Nightmare
Rattlesnake
Chimera

These ships make up a large portion of the Caldari lineup and are all extremely relevant in PVP. They are all viable, and usually the best ship in their class. The myth that has been perpetuated that Caldari is trash in PVP and is only successful because of HML ships is factually wrong and should be put to rest.

Come winter, we also see the rest of the cruisers brought up: the Osprey becomes a strong support ship, the Caracal very effective at applying DPS at medium range, the Moa a decent shield brawler, and even forgotten ships like NH and Cerb can now make decent HAM fits.



I added comments you forgot to type there.

Chimera - worst carrier in game.
Rattle and nightmare faction ships not really caldari.
Widow - crap (vargur does it better)
Rokh - Mediocre (maelstrom does it better)
Vulture - crap (claymore does it better)
Drake - Well everyone has own opinions but fact is that cane is better and OP
Tengu - ZOMG OP tengu
Ferox - LOL worst ship in game. Kinda like prophecy but prophecy can even bait.
Onyx - Nice shield hic
Basilisk - Good shield logi
Rook - Fail combat recon. Useless (minnie combat recon does it better)
Falcon - Nice force recon. Good cloaky ECM ship
Blackbird - LOL suicide ECM boat or resebo alt. Used mostly by E-UNI
CN Hookbill - Nice frigate but still faction
Flycatcher - Works but not as good as sabre
Kitsune - Nice ECM frig. But not too many places for viable usage
Harpy - Nice AF frig. Good example of good caldari boats.
Hawk - Ok missile based AF
Merlin - Pretty decent t1 caldari hull
Griffin - Suicide ECM frig. Bit like blackbird. Prolly used mostly by E-UNI


Erm you have no clue, this is one of the funniest posts on these forums tbh.

I mean how is "vargur does it better" a comment on the widow..... It does missioning better i guess ...



Funniest post on forum. Oh really? Are you serious? Mixing golem to widow is funniest thing you have ever seen on eve forums? Get a life pls.


Well they are not very funny forums tbh. And that was only one of many weird assertions in your post. Vulture is a great CS, core of most shiled fleets. Rook is a great combat recon as it can actually kill stuff unlike the others, pity falcon has same layout. Rokh is better than mael at pretty much everything other than alpha, BB is a great ship for a t1 cruiser. Ferox is a million miles from being worst ship in game, it just suffers from tiering like the other first tier bcs.

But yeah chimera sucks, flycatcher is not a sabre (which is way better than all other dictors)
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4799 - 2012-10-17 15:13:28 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if u dedicated ur entire skill tree to a single race and a single weapon system because it could give u everything, then u deserve every bit of this nerf. eve is about adaptation.

specialising will get u ahead in specific roles but partly why minmatar are very successful is they are the most versatile, yet skill intensive, race. They just can't specialise like the other races.

While I agree with the rest; No. Eve is about the sandbox, it's about doing anything you like; as long as it's within the constraints given to you by the game and the EULA. We can say that players should and it's highly recommended to crosstrain to different ships or weapon systems, but it doesn't and should never mean in any way that a player can't stick to one. That's stupid and completely contradictive to what the game is about.


its still a sandbox and u can still stick to a single race and a single weapon system if u want, but u must accept the disadvantages that brings.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ellen Stavinski
Zbieram na Piwo
#4800 - 2012-10-17 19:00:30 UTC
I was loving this game...but I am not happy with the way that you are doing the nerf...

Nerfing heavy missiles instead of ships is bad approach imo...

I am saying that since I am a quite new player who has picked up Caldari, shield tanking and heavy missiles as primary...

Finally after 6 months of training ships tree, shields, missiles I have reach my Nighthawk !...

DPS in this ship is good but not so good enough like in others...basically I am trying to say that if you going to nerf HM there are no option for me = cant jump quickly to anything else, and don’t want to pickup anything where I will spend another few months of training...

I will give a try...Heavy assault ?!

before you make any changes please consider

I can see that upcoming changes in HM are most welcome,
But I am sure there will be lots unhappy like I am...

If nerf will affected me to much going to cancel subscription....