Player Features and Ideas Discussion

must have missed it. link again?

edit - wait i think i got it.
they guy shooting frigs and indies with the sleip and GCC targets in jita?

Noemi, you are so full of it. That list is not facts. It is perceptions. Your perceptions. They prove nothing.

Also, you say you linked who your main is that supposedly is flying Hurricanes. I'm not asking, I'm demanding. Post it. You can post up your spam about pve all you want, because noone doubts you have experience with that. But, until you prove you have some pvp record, anything you say here concerning pvp is a load of ****.

1. That damage window is incredibly short, not 35km as you assert. You keep doing precisely what many of us and Fozzie have criticized as a facetious argument. To compare short range weapons systems dps against Drake HML dps is mixing apples and oranges. You mix them everytime you engage in your Cane whine. Those Canes are dps-ing in a short perimeter, the 10k or so that they have been engaging their dual medium neuts and ACs already in falloff.

And you keep missing that with the nerf they won't be able to use 425 ac and dual medium neuts anymore without a totally gimped fit, because they are getting grid nerfed, ffs, directly. My god if (no really, when ) the Drake had got directly nerfed with this pass what would you be saying. You'd be sperging your unsupported crap even more than you are now.

2. Flight time? So what? It does not matter. Those heavys are moving faster to target than any scout drone. Drakes would only have to worry about it if they are sitting at max range. In nullsec they do this with a bunch of other drakes and the thus the delay doesn't matter at all for killmail glory and doesn't matter for effectiveness because the whole fleets volley is what matters.

It doesn't happen in lowsec because almost everyone is sitting at zero to 30 so they can get a point. 30km of travel time on a missile doesn't lose anyone killmail glory. Drakes do fine, even near the top on killmails in mixed gangs, and noone is warping away from missiles in flight if they weren't already not pointed anyway. Try whining about drone travel time and you would have more credibility.

Oh, and if you are going to parade flight time as this terrible drawback to missiles, then balance that out with benefits like not needing cap (and not currently subject to tracking disruption )

3. Onictus already destroyed your whine about no other HML ships. And, with rebalancing Minmatar is getting a line of missile focused ships. But thats the whole point, this adjustment to HMs is being done to enable the process of rebalancing.

4. Ugh, your assertion number 4 is a rewording of your assertion number 3, so already addressed.

5. Agian for the umpteenth time, and you always avoid addressing it when I point this out, POSTING OVER AND OVER the same assertion based on your perception DOES NOT MAKE IT A FACT. You have no rangdom statistical sample of drake v cane usage numbers in lowsec. You have only your perception.

I have a differing perception. I see just as many Drakes or more in lowsec than Canes. Last night I was in two BC battles. Mainly mixed drakes and canes beacuse the others are **** atm. Drakes were outnumbering Canes by about 2 to 1. But does that make my perception and assertion any more an accurate portrayal of drake v cane use in lowsec? NO.

But, CCP has the tools to evaluate drake use in the game on a true statistical basis. They are not saying Drakes predominate only in nullsec. So stop repeating your own assertion as if we will all eventually accept it as fact. It is not fact.

6. Indeed, eve is not eft. But again, until you post with a main that has some pvp record all your posting can only be figured as that of an eft whore. And anyway, it seems your side finally gave up on the damage stats arguments because HMs are so obviously better. Regardless, CCP is not relying on EFT.

7. The issue is not whether there are counters to nullsec drake blobs. Again this is your attempt to characterize the problem as just nullsec drake blobs. CCP does not see it that way, and they have the ability to see drake/HML use within the game in all contexts. And, to just keep pointing to nullsec drake blobs doesn't help your argument anyway because you won't see Myrm or Harby blobs, and even Cane blobs won't be viable to replace Drakes (and especially after this nerf). BCs will all be getting rebalnced later as well. I doubt CCP wants to have them inhabiting all the available niches for tech I Cruisers and HACs (or even BSs) anymore.

Stop posting arguments and calling them facts. Stop calling posts, facts. This is an exchange of arguments.

No one with their brains set right (and yes, unfortunately this will exclude you ..) will claim Drakes are the most used ships in high and low. No one. Not even Onictus.



Err no. Thats a simple lie you tell here :) I never ever read anything like that in an official CCP announcement.

I will not stop posting facts, at least not as long as narrow minded people who obviously even cant read keep spamming their Drake/HML hate here :)

Just go back 2 pages and you see the link easily.

Second: if you accuse me of mixing AC Canes and Arty Canes, comparing HML Drakes with AC Canes and the like, then yes - you are a liar . I never did that.

The only time I mentioned those two ships/fittings was when I spoke about viable roles. There is no discussion about the AC Cane being the ship of choice for most low sec PvP players (if they want to go BC). The Drake with HML on the other hand is also a viable choice. If you really want to compare those two in terms of what they do in a 1on1, then HML Drake will lose to any AC Cane with a half smart pilot due to it cant catch the Cane, and if it can then the Cane will be too close for the Drake so the winner will be the Cane.

That does not mean the Drake has no role - it has. It has to stay far enough out and deal DPS from there. Those DPS are not so hot (esp. when not shooting kinetic ..) and come in delayed, but steady. So thats the role of a Drake, it can be a brick of a tank and deal solid DPS from 0-max. Its role is not favoured by current meta though, except in nullsec blobs. Simple as that.

on a totally unrelated side note:

i have the feeling that the sudden changes in argumentation from the topic of this thread to "your points are invalid because you are posting with a NPC-Corp Alt" has two reasons:

1. The horse is dead, no more beating, let it rest in peace
2. if one starts to feal s/he has no (more) valid points to contribute s/he starts to flame the "inexperienced" noobs in the NPC-Corps

regarding point 1. i'd like to add: if new information comes up i'm more than happy to discuss that again

cu.

FYP See what I did there.

But yeah, I said about a hundred pages ago that those whining about the changes were just repeating themselves, or as you put it, beating a dead horse

Missile users get the HAM buff to go alongside the HM nerf.

Is switching fits really such a tragedy?

Maybe its beyond your knowledge, but kills in Jita dont neccesarily need to be ganks ... there is a thing called wardec :)

And that Drake was not a good one, agreed on that. FC wanted HAMs when I had just t1 ready, he still wanted HAMs .. *sigh* the BCS were no issue for me, like I said - trading ;)

About the rest - everything has been said. I never said I fly only Drake, in fact in most of my postings you can read I can use all there is in subcap (and nowadays also all t2 weapons). So for me this is nothing personal, I dont *need* the Drake or Cane or whatever ship. But I like balance. I want Eve to be a place where every race can do something (and more than just E-war or Logi) in every ship class. And with their signature weapons, not some Gallentean gunnery ;) ... so fix the NH, fix the Raven, fix Torps, CMs and HAMs and then you can think of a change to HMLs. But not the other way round. Screwing over a race again and again is just lame.

Best regards.

As one who doesn't PvP much what was the issue with that fit?

Edit: Wait, reading more closely I just saw:

but if you look at the listed items under implants it should be obvious BC apparently doesn't know what ASB's or CPU rigs are or doesn't understand where they fit. The ship was fully fit.

I thought this was settled like 100 pages ago.... drakes are barely losing any dps, who cares? ***** when its on the test server, because sitting here whining about base numbers and eft warrioring doesnt mean a damn thing.