Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ofc I do. Damage projection of turrets ends at optimal + 2 times falloff. And after optimal damage will be reduced pretty fast. Still the ability to 1) do damage at all on a certain range and 2) do it instantly is what favours sniper turrets over sniper missiles atm. This is only not true in medium-long range (from 35 up to around 70km, with rigs and implants more) for medium sized long range weapons, where turrets fall back behind HML. In any other engagement range turrets outclass missiles, and ANY missiles (above frig size).

While I agree with you it might suck to have a 35km frame of missile OPness in medium sized weapons I ask you this - is it balance, that in all other ranges missiles are so far behind turrets that its just a waste of time mostly to bring them into battle there? Can you imagine how missile users feel in every other engagement type than Drake/HML at this range? So, give us working missiles in a way that they are *VIABLE* for PvP like turrets in those other ranges, and no one will deny you a buff for med turrets or nerf for HML so they are in line with med turrets in this 35-70 km frame. I promise here to support any claim for a fix then.



When you try to make me look like I am the one who is not reading I will now show you how you dont even understand your own picture ... seriously, and again, before I come to your picture:

do you agree with the fact missiles are UP in all other PvP ranges/fights than those described 35-70km in med weapons battle?

1) yes

2) no

If you choose no, I will like to hear examples for that claim. Currently I hear only examples for 1).

Now to your picture.



First, this is where it starts to get wrong. There are no Sniper-Drakes with 3 BCS normally. A good idea is to use actual PvP fittings for a comparison.

If you neglect all damage mods and range mods, you will see you compare long range ammo for turrets on short ranges vs missiles which have one kind of range ammo atm (HML dont have long range ammo at all, and their high DPS ammo will get short range only in next patch, if it goes through). So you do it wrong again here, turrets wont use long range ammo on short range, they will use highest DPS available at that fighting range. This would mean RF/IN/CN ammo on some ranges. Not sure about the high DPS t2 ammo. So compare this, pls, and not long range ammo with low dps when you check numbers. This will result in some more graphs though ;)



Err, no. When you set the range back by 3-4 km you dont even compensate for actual range in game for shooting a stationary target. Missile ranges are completely bugged when you use the values of new UI or EFT.



I understand this concept very well. In addition turrets have also a chance to put in higher DPS ammo, in case of Amarr even without a significant reload time. If you dont put this into your picture you just do it wrong.

I assume you do this purposely, but it wont make your point more valid. Go on, but answer me my above question first, please. It will make it easier for me and others to see your intentions :)

http://i.imgur.com/SJ357.png

Updated with new changes. 3 bcs, no bonuses best dmg ammo(t2/faction) for given range.
Small warning: Do not be fooled by 720's low performance. Matari ships have usually double bonuses with less turrets. Think them about 15% better., which puts their initial dmg value slightly below 250's. Also HML is assumed using furies up to max fury range, faction ammo after that.

Right now:

Pre 25k the dps graph shows higher dmg for turrets with optimal ammo. I'd take these numbers valid between 15k-25k. Below this range tracking becomes a BIG issue. HML's will keep hitting just fine.

Post 25km it is no contest. Turret ships need to (and are using) use additional slots to compensate for range, which missile ships can use for ewar/speed/tank etc.

After patch:

I don't really know.....it looks blurry to me. I don't know exact details but furies are going to have a hard time hitting targets. But even if they do half damage they will still outdamage LR turrets between 0-13k as tracking IS a big problem.

Beyond 13k up to 35k turrets will be having the upper hand.

After 35k up to 65k HML damage will out do turrets.

Beyond that is the area for specialized ships/fittings that use additional mods/rigs to increase range.

I understand that missiles were buffed/changed and slots on ships (extra lows on the caracal for eg) were because T/Ds, Tracking enhancers and Computers were going to affect it, Are these ships and missiles still going to be ballanced without the T/Ds now?

No he (and possible HQ) is just wrong. Some ammos have a tracking penalty. There are no ammos with a tracking bonus.

Are you trolling?

pretty sure titanium sabot and another have a 20% tracking bonus. All T2 close range ammo for Rails/Arty/Beams has a 25% tracking bonus.

You are clueless. All short-range tech 2 ammo types used for long-range guns have a 25% tracking bonus.

There's also projectile medium-range t1 ammo, which has had a tracking boost for even longer, and projectile long-range t1 ammo, which has a tiny tracking bonus.

Although you were not the one who I asked, you still gave a revealing answer. More please :)

(in detail: about the HAM Drake you refused a 1on1 because I would have "threatened to set Mercs on" you ... in fact I said I cant do a 1on1 right now, but I know plenty of people who will do with pleasure and whoop your HAM Drakes *ss to show you how wrong you are about your idea of a HAM Drake being on par with *any* other tier 2 BC atm in close range 1on1. So this discussion *is* set and there is no need to continue it, thanks. The others .. lol, just lol. SBs are a special thing and Frigs have never been in discussion here! Funny thing you try to take them to make your point :) you could as well have said "yes", so thanks again! )

I would call that a pretty big success to be honest.

I would call that a success too, even if I think it could be more easily achieved with just fixing CM and Ravens (not sure about Phoon if it needs more love), this would kill those Drake blobs too. And not kill something which is the only niche Caldari missile PvP works in atm (above frigsize).

You will always have some kind of blobs. The issue with the Drake blobs was just:

1) too cheap (for its performance)
2) too easy to sit in side (lower skill reqs than BS)
3) too fast/small (even as a not exactly fast BC its faster than BS)

Cruise Missiles ... which are atm completely broken in PvP and subpar too in PvE.