Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Does your Cane do 800+ dps at 4 km?
Does your Cane do 450+ dps at 21 km?

Btw, why people are still comparing range of HAMs vs long range turrets and damage of heavy missiles vs. short range turrets?

Drake in level 4s... yeah.

Any T1 BS is faster in level 4s compared to Drake.

since fozzie seems to still be reading this thread i thought i drop my .02 ISK on version 2.0 of the changes:

1. the good.
postponing the missile 'tracking' change is a very good idea. you should take your time and think about whether this kind of homogenization is what the game needs (obviously, i think it isn't).
the PG reduction for HAMs as well as explosion radius bonuses applying to short range missiles is 'OK'. it still is homogenization but not the bad kind, as it keeps missiles distinct from guns while mitigating the problems of rockets/HAMs/torps. you should rename the skill to just 'missile precision' if you can, but that's gravy.

2. the bad.
heavy missile damage application being nerfed across the board is a very big issue. i don't mind the range nerfs too much, although fury hitting out to ~20km on an unbonused ship is somewhat ridiculous if you compare it to what it used to be. but if you stack explosion velocity and radius nerfs on top of that, HML damage application becomes almost unbearably bad. i can already see assault frigates 1v1'ing drakes while their gang just keeps point and watches.

3. the ugly.
the actual damage numbers nerf combined with the range and explosion nerfs takes missiles even beneath medium railguns in terms of their usefulness. ironically, this is not as bad for the drake and tengu (the first having other strengths and the second having means to compensate) but it is HORRIBLE for the other HML hulls.
unless you plan on taking all HML hulls into your rebalance pass, i would strongly suggest keeping at least HML damage numbers untouched. with the buffs to HAMs, they are already a viable alternative and many people will consider switching to brawler fits. if you stack the damage nerf on top of the rest, medium sized missile doctrine will become 'go HAM drake or go home' for a long time.


on a side note: when i started playing, i was told that caldari was the best race for PVE. after a few months of comparing hulls, i realized that this is not the case once you are past lvl3 missions. if the nerf goes live in the proposed way, the CNR and golem may become top notch dps platforms again (assuming javelins) but the drake's PVE dps will become so abysmal for a low-sp char that i would actually advise new players against caldari.

I use 2 Drakes to do Level 4 missions and it's very easy, saves me the risk of losing a more expensive ship and I like to fly the Drake.

Now that we're also active in Wormholes we use Drakes against sleepers, if they nerf range and damage it's gonna screw it up even more, not to mention that when you suddenly have to switch to PvP you might not get a chance to change your fits to HAM's, so you're stuck using HML, which isn't a problem right now, unless they are going to nerf it.

The nerf hits one area too much in my opinion and targets multiple ships which are going to loose it's spark. Tengu, Drake, Caracal and what ever else.

I think CCP needs to look at this a bit better and decide on 1 nerf, instead of hitting the HML with sooooo much at once. On top of that, a while back CCP talked about removing the Resistence bonus on the Drake, combined with this nerf, it's gonna make the Drake useless.

According to EON Magazine the drake is still the most used ship and the most destroyed ship... It earns this title over and over again... So why not adjust it a little bit instead of taking away it's charm. I don't fancy upgrading to a Battleship, I like to focus on 1 ship because it serves multiple area's of the game at once. Especially in wormholes.

This is gonna force people to train up different skills and switch to another race or upgrade to bigger ship... That isn;t fair when you've spend all your time training for those missile skills, I got most of mine at level 5, now I gotta rethink my training and wasted all those level 5 skills.

The nerf is too much, period.

AF going under the guns of larger ship is not a problem of the drake only, every cruisers and above live under this threat. How is this a problem ?

If you start a Caldari character after the nerf hits you're gonna find yourself stuck using Railguns because the missile ships won't be useful until you can fly a Raven, who's gonna sit on their asses training for this and use Railguns in the meantime. Railguns are ****, even after CCP fixed this.

A while back they were promoting in high bright colors that Caldari was the race for missiles again and that they were gonna bring back the flare in using them.

I haven't used Rails since I switched from a Ferox to a Drake and then to a Tengu... I'm not always using my Tengu because in Wormholes it's sometimes risky putting an expensive ship on the field.

This nerf hits an entire tree of character growth. From the Caracal -> Drake -> Tengu... what comes next ? If you're forced to use Railguns, forget training for a Raven because you're forced to spend all your time training Railgun skills... I don't see the logic in this, unless the goal is to remove Caldari from the game entirely.

Caldari will become useful again after you've trained up for a Raven, but who's gonna sit in station for 6 months until they have the right skills to finally fly one... You still have to train up all the missile support skills, which are completely useless for the other ships after the nerf.

An entire tree of training and growing into new ships is going to be useless. The natural stepping stone of growing into a Cruiser, then a Battlecruiser and the into a T3 Cruiser is gonna disappear... Unless you fancy flying a Railgun Tengu.

When im looking in your googledoc doc. im noticing your nerfing the Precision missiles also in range? is this a error or are they going to have useless range also? tought of them as longrange missiles not shortrange versions.

[edited]

i have done some rough calculations on ranges on my tengu (just taken in to account Missile Bombardment, Guided missile projection and my ship bonus)

for comparision purpoes

now on TQ : 104Km range

Furry 41, 087 Km
Precision 41, 087 Km
T1 82,173 Km

[edited]

I was way off never used Precision before but they are close range small ship so the range seems ok

the only sad thing i can see is that if i want to agress someone at longrange i have to resort to T1 / Faction missiles

lol - im wasted now about > 8 mc - becouse some stupid **** dont have any idea what to do with HM and drake blob ... lol . More stupid devs pls :) lets nerf everething ,and we will shoot to target at max 1 km :) and every weapon will do same dmg .

LOL

Guess again.

You get in an AC cane I'll get in a ceptor or my dram and see how many full damage hits you get.

Thats the problem here dude... I dont have those fricking skills... I have Drake / Missile / Tengu skills... not fricking Cane skills... or guns, r lasers.... I do missiles...