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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3901 - 2012-10-02 01:08:31 UTC
Flatiner wrote:
.Perhaps you should consult your player base...

Congratulations, you just stumbled upon the entire reason for this thread.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#3902 - 2012-10-02 02:51:59 UTC
Than you CCP Fozzie for breaking this rebalancing effort into smaller pieces. It is nice to see tools other than the 500lb sledgehammer being used in rebalancing.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3903 - 2012-10-02 04:14:34 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Elise Randolph wrote:

I'm told from a reliable source that HML TD'ing Sacrilege fleet can nullify the damage from turrets.

Though I must say, if you actually believe 6 large smartbombs render missile fleets moot, why have Drake fleets been amongst the popular for half a decade?


About the most educated post a CSM can make... glad you got elected bro... really serving the populace.

Yeah, lets not hammer firewalls down Elise.. not like your alliance hasn't figured them out perfectly... wouldn't want to make the game challenging for you at all.

You don't balance this game around the average player... I've always said that. You balance it around the players good enough to exploit the problematic features introduced. Because eventually, even the young less aware players start to figure out how to do it too and then the **** storm really kicks off.

Now try starting your next post w/o a jab at me and add some content somewhere along the line.


Missiles are about to take a huge nerf... God forbid the Devs give just a little back.

Are you.... BLIND?!

The missile rebalance, nerf, was just scaled back a bit. It is rather annoying that you refuse to acknowledge the buffs to missiles they are doing as well. Missile velocity and removal of T2 missiles penalties to name a few.

Why do you keep exaggerating the nerf so much???
Alara IonStorm
#3904 - 2012-10-02 04:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Hmmm.

Cut Missile Distance like this.

* Standard 20km
* Heavy 40km
* Cruise 80km

Then remove Precision Missiles all together. Change them to Javelin Missiles with lower Dmg at the Following Ranges.

* Standard 30km
* Heavy 60km
* Cruise 120km

Now add in ships that get a 10% Velocity Bonus and it looks like this.

T1 / Faction

* Standard 30km
* Heavy 60km
* Cruise 120km

T2 Javelin

* Standard 45km
* Heavy 90km
* Cruise 180km

Add in a 10% Velocity Bonus on T2 Tracking Mods and whatever works for tracking scripts and you are left with a reasonably good set of weapons once Cruise Missile Ships are balanced. Cut Heavy Dmg by about 5-7.5%. The Tengu gets it's 7.5% RoF and 5% Kin Dmg bonus turned into a 10% Rof Bonus which cuts the Kin part so PvE'ers are mostly happy. Change the Drakes Kin Dmg to RoF then decide if the Drake keeps its Tank Bonus and has half its range cut or gets Velocity Bonus and keeps a good amount of range.

Then any other Medium LR weapons like Med Beams, Med Rails that fall short of this, handle the problem with both their ship stats (Tier Removal Base Stat Changes / Bonus Changes) and the Weapons Fitting / Stats themselves. At that point the Dmg would be mostly balanced between useful Medium LR Weapons and the ships that use them by letting them be better in the mid range role with good Dmg (35-60KM) while having an option to strike further (70-100ish KM) for less Dmg.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3905 - 2012-10-02 04:35:03 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:


Why do you keep exaggerating the nerf so much???


exaggerating?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtfS55wysRHHdGQzQjBoeVRSUFRQVjF3QV84S1d2SFE#gid=0

There's a lot more than exaggerated nerfs on there.

All fury missiles are getting reduced to precision range.
Rage torps have an increase explosion radius of 124.
All rage missiles are getting a slight range nerf

Heavy missiles are getting more range nerfs than just fury
They're also getting damage nerfs and damage application nerfs.

Hell, the only real buffs that are on there are countered by either reduced damage, or increased exp radius/reduced exp velocity/reduced range.

About the only really good thing that is coming from this is the removal of t2 ammo penalties.
Yank Sin
#3906 - 2012-10-02 05:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Yank Sin
To be blunt I still see my Tengu that I spent for ever to train for turning to a wimpy shadow of its former glory. The good old days of target locking and killing rats at over 100km will be a fond memory of the past. Would you tell a great white shark to take out its teeth because it kills to much? No you would not. You would sit back and watch a killing machine at work.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#3907 - 2012-10-02 05:22:15 UTC
^ With comparison to great white shark.

All the rats would just alert each other a tengu warped in, then they would warp out and vacate the area till you left, then come back in.

I don't see you making much isk that way, and might feel wimpy still.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#3908 - 2012-10-02 05:23:30 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:

About the only really good thing that is coming from this is the removal of t2 ammo penalties.

You mean the only good thing FOR YOU.

..Which is not balance, and you have no idea what you are talking about..

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#3909 - 2012-10-02 05:34:44 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ With comparison to great white shark.

All the rats would just alert each other a tengu warped in, then they would warp out and vacate the area till you left, then come back in.

I don't see you making much isk that way, and might feel wimpy still.

And when you trained for it, you didn't do it because it was OP, you just happened to be Caldari. You actually considered to train for the Legion, because all T3 are just as good for everything, but ended up with the Tengu by accident. Correct?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Shadalana
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3910 - 2012-10-02 05:45:43 UTC
Am I blind or are this "new" changes just the "old" changes?
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#3911 - 2012-10-02 06:00:39 UTC
Suddenly every wormhole corp has just went back to the drawing board to find out new ways of making more money than God again.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#3912 - 2012-10-02 06:26:13 UTC
It is an excellent thing to rip off the Tengu / Drake Domination.
All game modifications in this way are apreciated even if I Fly Drake and Tengu.
I hope though that these two ships will not be so nerfed that they will become useless.
We will see on the field...

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Audix
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3913 - 2012-10-02 06:31:03 UTC
Dont understand why people don't like the missile change, its about time those drakes and "tengu"'s got the nerf they deserve, ahaha byebye missile's, time to fly pilgrims once again
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#3914 - 2012-10-02 06:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CaptainFalcon07
Rage HAM: 7500

Rage Torps: 7500

Javelin HAM: 13500

Javelin Torps: 13500


TROLOLOLOLOLO

Torps need some love in range.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#3915 - 2012-10-02 06:45:28 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
Suddenly every wormhole corp has just went back to the drawing board to find out new ways of making more money than God again.

Nope, not really. Dreads and Battleships ftw. Drakes and Tengus take too long ;)
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#3916 - 2012-10-02 06:59:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be clear, after these changes settle a bit we very well may revisit missiles depending on how they turn out. The days of balance and forget are over.


Respectfully, this comment borders on the absurd. Get back to us when the Caldari no longer have entire classes of ships that are laughably broken. Until then you haven't balanced anything.

Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#3917 - 2012-10-02 07:24:43 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be clear, after these changes settle a bit we very well may revisit missiles depending on how they turn out. The days of balance and forget are over.


Respectfully, this comment borders on the absurd. Get back to us when the Caldari no longer have entire classes of ships that are laughably broken. Until then you haven't balanced anything.



My point for ages ... the "new" numbers dont solve really anything in my opinion. We still have the same thing, HML outclass medium sized turrets at sniping ranges, until they run out of flighttime and will have 0 DPS. Thats plain stupid and no balance at all.

If you want to get HML in line with med turrets you would have to do this:

-> change an existing ammo-type or add a new one with dedicated RANGE stats: flight time the same, speed increased dramatically to get ranges like the other platforms do in optimal + 1*falloff or maybe even optimal + 1.3* falloff. Those missiles should ofc not have the same damage like the shortrange ones, but should be comparable to sniper ammo of turrets.

-> adjust charge size for Hybrids and Missiles to be in line with Projectiles (atm projectile turrets can shoot way longer before they need to reload - why?).

-> bring Fury/Precision/t1/Faction in line so they will work. High damage advantage frame of Drake should be reduced, but dont forget there are ranges where the other systems deal more - this should be overall balanced.

Same should be applied to Torp/CM/HAM. In that same moment CMs on Ravens get viable one will see the Drake nullsecblobs die. And no, the Raven Blobs will still not be OP, just because they are 1) more expensive, 2) more skill intense and 3) BS-Size. The Problem with those Drake fleets was not what they actually did, but how cheap it was to field them, and how fast they were compared to BS-Fleets (naturally). If Drakes are countered easily by Ravens, Ravens still wont dominate other BS-fleets, they lack speed to perform like Drakes and they have a bigger price tag. Try it!
Signal11th
#3918 - 2012-10-02 07:37:01 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ With comparison to great white shark.

All the rats would just alert each other a tengu warped in, then they would warp out and vacate the area till you left, then come back in.

I don't see you making much isk that way, and might feel wimpy still.

And when you trained for it, you didn't do it because it was OP, you just happened to be Caldari. You actually considered to train for the Legion, because all T3 are just as good for everything, but ended up with the Tengu by accident. Correct?



No some like myself can fly all of them, so can use which ever one is best for the situation at hand, PVP I use my Loki, Money making I use my Tengu,Legion.

Unfortunately some thing in life will always be better at something than others but unlike in life CCP can make them all boring at the same time.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3919 - 2012-10-02 07:43:26 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be clear, after these changes settle a bit we very well may revisit missiles depending on how they turn out. The days of balance and forget are over.


I consider that a good thing.

Thanks or chopping the changes in smaller parts, gives a better overview as to what every change will do once it's implanted.

I can live with this take on the HM, need to see what the the other changes will bring. And although I love my Hookbill and Hawk, Rockets should be monitored cearfully with the change in precision skill.


Keep up the good work
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#3920 - 2012-10-02 07:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Noemi Nagano
I feel like its simply ridiculous to nerf the only existing and working missile platform above frig battle. CMs and Torps are outclassed a lot in PvE and even more in PvP. HAM is non-existent in PvE and not on par in PvP. HML is the only thing which works, and agreed: for PvE missions its better than med size turrets. But noticeable worse than best turrets (large AC/Tachys). And way better than CMs and Torps, esp. when considering the ships the other missiles are used on. So yes, Tengu is best in PvE, but only for Caldari. Vargur, Paladin, Mare and Machariel outclass it. Golem does not, get an idea?

I simply deny the fact there is a reason to nerf something, just because its good (or maybe even better than other things) as long as its neither the best nor the only strong/OP thing in this game. As long as Winmatar dominate everything there is no need to nerf Caldaris strong ships and weapons. Simple as that.