Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Not unlucky, smart. It was an excellent choice to train, too excellent.

The HAM Tengu is still going to be great.

About the Mare vs. Golem comparison, a few thoughts of mine, sticking to PvE:

1) Mare can insta Alpha small stuff which a Golem never can (below BC-size it can never Alpha anything, and it will never insta-hit either).

2) Long ranges favor guns a lot, esp. vs slow moving missile systems - it simply makes salvo-counting a pain, when you fight on high ranges km with Torps.

3) Torps dont work with EFT-ranges (like no missile does). It would only be fair if ingame the "real" theoretical max would be shown and not the wrong flighttime*velocity-calculation, so one could at least know for sure how far out a *not moving* target can be and still be in range.

4) Tank is not an issue.

5) The Mare is a Pirate BS, its ok when it performs a bit better than a Marauder (per CCP Definition). The Mare is so strong because it can fit oversized Lasers without issues (Tachyons), and has ship boni which ad perfectly to this system, by overcoming its weak tracking.

6) The Mare can perform on par with a Machariel in EM/Therm missions. The Paladin is not so far behind those 2 though, in EM/Therm. The Vargur overall performs similar to the Machariel, being a fair bit slower though. Still 1/4th to 1/3rd faster than a Golem ....

7) Damage-application is ok in a Golem, due to its inherent boni and ability to fit TPs, although it has to be checked if they will really be better than TCs then. And it requires a LOT of work.

8) For maximum effect the rigs on the Golem have to be mixed, one flight time and one velocity.

9) Ammo-cost is a non-issue for Laserships, unlike for the Golem with Torps ...

Bottom line: atm the Tengu is considered to be worse in PvE than the Vargur (and Paladin in EM-missions), and the only missions where it really shines are kinetic-resist weak enemies anyway, means in all others its even more behind. Still its better than the current Golem or CNR. So if its getting a nerf, pls bring the others in line with Winmatar.

-> 3. CCP is changing missile acceleration so EFT range values more closely resemble real range values.

-> 6. The Golem may be slower than the Nightmare in EM/Thermal missions, but it has damage type flexibility. Damage type selection is not to be sneered at, it can be very significant unless you never shoot stuff outside of your empire borders and turn down missions with any other type of NPC. Ever tried using a Paladin or Nightmare in Minmatar space? Even if the Golem doesn't specifically run your missions faster than a Nightmare in its turf, the Golem is certainly more flexible.

-> 8. I did that on purpose - the TE in the lows will be providing a flight time bonus so 2x velocity > 1x flight time 1x velocity - which provides the additional bonus of reaching targets faster.

-> 9. Granted, and it's not a small item either, but the Vargur and Machariel both have to deal with burning through super expensive ammo too.

The Golem isn't as far behind as everyone says and it's going to get better. Tracking Enhancers + removal of ship penalties on Javelins will improve it. I'm not convinced it needs anything further. The Golem will be getting a significant range bonus and a moderate damage application buff.

People complaining that when the Tengu is nerfed they'll have nothing are full of hot air.

As for bringing it up to the level of the Vargur/Mach, that's ridiculous. How about bringing those ships down to the level of the Paladin, Kronos and Golem? You're not entitled to have far and away the best missioning ship in every class just because you trained Caldari.

If you have all Tachs in one group you're doing it wrong.

You run 4 Tachs in 2 groups:
- to minimize overkilling
- for cap management reasons

You run 8 Tachs (Abaddon and Oracle) in 4 groups for same reasons.



It only has 4 turret hardpoints. Btw, 8 Tachs fits easily to Oracle. 4 Tachs fits to Paladin with ACR rig and AWU5.

Try to fit Tachs to Armageddon or Apoc... Even Abaddon has serious grid problems with Tachs.



They need to bring Vargur down to level of other marauders and I think they already have it on their list.
Mach like other pirate BSs should be a bit better than let's say marauders and clear improvement over T1. I'd say bring Mack down to level of other pirate BSs and it will be okay for all.

Please post mission completion times in various factions' space to support this assertion.

By the way. I assume Tracking Links will also affect missiles? So basically, If you bring a friend or an alt, you don't have to sacrifice anything on your Drake, it's simply a pure buff

Its been done plenty of times, and common sense tells the same. I wont do your work, and your tendency to not answer most of my questions at all is not helping to motivate me more either.

Machariel > all, everywhere except in some Blood/Sansha missions, where Mare is on par.

Vargur close behind Mach. Paladin close behind Mare in Blood/Sansha.

Tengu fair bit behind those in all, a little less behind in Kinetic-Weak missions (Gurista, Serpentis, EoM), the more flight time and range included the better for the Tengu.

CNR/Golem behind Tengu.

1k DPS Dominix (350mm t2 rails + Garde II fitted) - nice DPS but weak in tank.

About the Kronos I have no solid info.

If anyone here disagrees, just go to the ships&modules or your local forums (I am using eve germany) for more info. You will find this is matter of fact.

(btw, if you assume you want to fly your l4s for a good LP-shop corp, which is a smart assumption, you will not end up in Caldari-space, just for the records ;) )

20% damage and 25% range, isn't it too much? I think many of us use Heavy Missile for snipping, the damage nerf is reasonable (if not saying it's also a bit too much) but the range nerf would very much change the use of Heavy Missiles. This change is just for the sake of balancing, not to force people to change their play style, right?

I said again. With this "rebalance" (actually - cutting of from payable form) CCP need to cut other weapons.
You say they OP? - take down just ONE - range or wolley damage. And no more then 10-15%
All ships has nearly same damage. altitude is 5-10%, and has big difference of speed. Caldary ships one of slowest ships.
Make their speed like Minmatar, but and with this you no feel difference. Minmatar is 80% of PvP fleets. Change THIS and don`t nerf PvE - it don`t make rule at war in nullsec.