Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Did you know that the battlecruisers are not rebalanced yet? For all you know, you will be able to fit 8 HAMs, a full tank with speed and tackle and 2 TEs and 2 BCUs on your drake.

the cane does more DPS at < 9 km and > 25 km and the drake does more DPS between 9 and 25
the cane has neuts (being taken away) and is faster, the drake has more (2x) EHP . . . how is this not fair?

why does the cane need to have less CPU? should the drake really have 3x the EHP because thats what would happen to the comparison.

The cane gets to fit more gyros/TEs the drake gets to fit more ewar/TCs i dont see the problem

Do you see how HG Slaves and speed come into that equation, same as the (even only slightly) bigger drone bay of the Cane? Thats why EFT is NOT Eve.

Hit me up in game after the Jav changes go through. You may find this thread an interesting read in the mean time.

I am familiar with this thread, as I know many things about BC PvP. You said something there "And the biggest problem is that I've assumed no ECM drones. Wink" Thats the point. You wont win vs. a Harbinger, if he knows how to use his drones to kill yours/jam you. He has twice your bay. And you maybe forgot about slaves ...

And *if* something will be changed with Javs, things might be different. We will see then. For now my statement stays, and its been proven. Also I take your answer as a "no" to my 1on1 offer, you could as well say "I know I will most probably lose, so I better wait for a buff". Which is ok for me, thanks. Exactly what I said in fact ...

HML, the only working system, and yet, they are OP in regards with other LR medium weapon. So we fix HML to make them in line with other medium LR weapons, and we fix the other missiles systems.

What is wrong with other missiles systems ? Damage application (in fact, versatility most of the time) and damage projection (in fact, they project very well, just less than OP HML).

Problem is that we cannot make large missiles to kill everything, or they will be OP ; so a direct fix of damage application would make them to versatile and powerful. Tracking enhancers is then the obvious solution : easy to implement and that solve the problem. Using a module mean that missiles boat will have to trade something for more versatility in damage application. Win-win.

About HAM, their damage can look rather weak, but they are exactly like rockets in this matter : its only an impression because they have no tracking and always hit, and they hit farther than anything but pulse lasers, though pulse lasers don't have their damage at range. Damage application may be a bit problematic, but these changes will fix that, and then they will be almighty.

HML are not OP per se. They work well on 1 tech 1 hull (Drake) and dont completely suck on one more (Caracal, although thats debatable). They are weaker than lr med turrets on ranges below around 35 km, and weaker than them above their max range (which is 75km locking for Drake, or 79km for all l5 without rigs or the like if you can spare a medslot for a Sebo). They are stronger in that window of 35-79km, which is, admitted a nice frame. I dont object to change LR turrets to close that window a bit more to maybe 55-79km where HML would be better and 35-55km would be where they work about the same.



Those other systems work so very well and are just not OP, yeah ... which you can see in how much they are used in PvP - Cruise Missiles? HML only seem OP because they are the only missiles which work. They wouldnt seem OP at all if other missiles would work too (esp. Torps and CMs, but also HAMs) and that window of opportunity in LR med size battle would be smaller. In fact, the only thing which they are really overused for is Null sec Drake Blobs, and Raven/CM would kill Drake/HML there, if only Raven/CM was working as intended. And still Raven/CM wouldnt most probably be OP then, just because BS-size is much easier to counter with other BS than tons of BC. And its more expensive, and you need more SP. So Drake blobs as they are now would be easy to counter with tech 1, BS would fight BS, and in smaller scale BC everything is fine already now (except maybe too much Winmatar over all)

Hopefully you understand now ..

Noemi has lost the argument about 15 times now but just keeps repeating his uninformed opinions over and over.

People have shown, using the actual statistics and figures and fittings, that HMLs are out of line both in range and DPS and OP. The people who argue against this aren't using numbers, or even statistics, but just making bald statements of opinion which, surprise surprise, defend their own use of HMLs.

Thats game over.

Because of the potential impact to other caldari hulls.

See, the thing is, people assure you that ... say the caracal is perfectly viable and a great little hull. Odd then....that you hardly ever see them abusing this OP weapon system...

I also don't see Rooks tearing the place up with said system either. Before anyone says HAMs, if HML are OP...why not use them?

Just a couple of examples, but lets try to avoid any nasty side effects/mitigate them as much as possible.



There's also the whole TD affecting missiles thing, the stock retort of "lol fit a TE/TC then" assumes available mid slots. I'm pretty sure no-one runs with spare slots . This will result in sacrifice and yes, before you bother LOLDRAKETANK....what about every other ship?

This translates into a real decrease to missile boat effectiveness be it direct DPS or their survivability - and aside from the two known problem hulls, I don't see missile boats tearing up the cosmos.

And even those 2 so called problem hulls dont tear up the Cosmos, but just work in a specific environment .. apart from that, Tengus are not more an issue than Machariels are, both have a price tag which makes them unlikely to flood fleets. What you said is true though, missile boats suck in PvP with those 2 exceptions (and SBs, ok), and this should be solved *first*. Thanks.