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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#3261 - 2012-09-27 19:10:58 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
[quote=MIrple][quote=Sinigr Shadowsong][quote=Jorma Morkkis]

A mission fit with 25km optimal with longest range ammo and no prop mod? I see what you did there ..


I never fit a prop mod on my lvl 4 runners

And yet 25k optimal 28k fall off ask Mimitar pilots if they ever fight in optimal or always in fall off. Hell even the Kronos always fights in fall off its not at bad as you think.
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3262 - 2012-09-27 19:12:15 UTC
Lallante wrote:
Saying a long range fit Drake will lose if it begins within close range of a close range fit BC is hardly staggering. The fact that it even has a chance shows there is a problem.


The numbers have been posted and end the debate. The HML is overpowered.


Only a Sith speaks in absolutes!

Oh wait, wrong sci-fi. My bad.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3263 - 2012-09-27 19:16:44 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
A mission fit with 25km optimal with longest range ammo and no prop mod? I see what you did there ..


Mach has 4,23km optimal but it is one of the best L4 mission ships...
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#3264 - 2012-09-27 19:19:25 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
A mission fit with 25km optimal with longest range ammo and no prop mod? I see what you did there ..


Mach has 4,23km optimal but it is one of the best L4 mission ships...


I think because it disproves their point it does not work or isn't relevant. Caldari have 2 weapon systems just like the other races Missiles and Hybrids. Because people chose not to train for one side they believe that Caldari are only a missile based race.
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3265 - 2012-09-27 19:22:00 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
A mission fit with 25km optimal with longest range ammo and no prop mod? I see what you did there ..


Mach has 4,23km optimal but it is one of the best L4 mission ships...

And 70km faloff, almost always fited with prop module and has best movement speed/agility in class. Oh and selectable damage type. Which proves that speed and range are actually important in L4.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3266 - 2012-09-27 19:27:59 UTC
Ok, so I'll say this again.


As a pve pilot I enjoy grinding out lvl 4 missions to no end, then coming back to salvage in my noctis.

I've done lvl 4 missions in a drake, tengu, golem, raven, scorpion navy, and raven navy.

These are the only missile boats capable of running lvl 4 missions.

Now, other races have t1 battleships that are actually quite efficient at lvl 4 missions.

However, the raven is a terrible, terrible ship for pve in tank, dps, and effective dps.
Hell, a drake gets more effective dps than a cruise raven, and while a torp raven my have awesome dps, it has almost nothing in the way of tank.

Gun boats also have the availability of pirate faction ships that are amazing at lvl 4 missions, and even are superior to Marauders.
However, the turret Marauders are by far more superior in pve than a golem.

Now, we then have the tengu. Even though it doesn't have the potential dps of pirate turret boats, turret Marauders, or even some turret t1 bs's, it has pretty good effective dps.

Now, once this missile nerf hits the tengu will lose a good amount of range, but that's not really a problem.
The dps loss however is a problem.
That said, the tengu will still have more effective dps than a cruise raven.

So, you're probably wondering why I mention this.
Well, I've been playing Eve long enough to have built up a substantial amount of skills in order to fly lvl 4 missions with high efficiency.
I've got over 8 mil skill points in missiles alone.

So, how do you think I feel that knowing the only ship missile boat pilots have with high efficiency in lvl 4's is getting a large range AND damage nerf long before we receive any type of missile boat capable of replacing it?

Not very good.
It's kinda like if they came to drone boat lovers and told them they were nerfing the dominix to be able to only field 100bw of drones. Sure, that's just one less sentry but that makes a huge different.
However, those pilots would still have the dominix navy, ishtar, rattlesnake, and even the Mega and navy mega can field a full fleet of sentries, as well as the vindicator.
Sure, those last 3 ships drone get drone bonuses, but 5 sentries are pretty effective without bonuses.

That said, what do we missile boat pilots have?
I've already expressed that all of our battleships including the golem are subpar. The ratttlesnake is more of a drone boat, the drake has very low dps..

So, I guess I'm just stuck now doing lvl 4's in a subpar tengu the will have future nerfs coming until I finish cross training turrets and ships until I am able to get the high efficiency I've enjoyed from the tengu.

However, due to the tengu being limited to one damage type, it wasn't even all that effective. I had tried swapping to mission specific ammo before, but they didn't work any better than kinetic.
Now, my kinetic damage is getting nerfed down to the damage of other damage types, and they're getting nerfed down to below current standard drake dps.

So, not only will I be stuck using a damage type that is sub par in a lot of missions, but I'll also be stuck having sub par dps all together.

I do understand that the drake and tengu need nerfing.

However, I also understand that when bc rebalance comes around the drake will probably be compensated with bonuses to counter what it lost. It will probably get the full damage back, lose EHP, and get at least 15% of its range back.

So, it almost seems that this nerf was done so that cruisers themselves didn't have such long range/powerful weapons, and then they're going to rebalance the drake for this loss.

I'm ok with this.

I am just not happy with being stuck waiting for battleship rebalance in order to effectively use my missile skills in pve again.

Based of the current rate of balance, I'm betting it'll be a good year before they get to rebalancing battleships, and I have no idea when they'll even consider Marauders....

Like I said, this is my only problem with the nerf.
Nerf heavy missiles now, and leave missile boat mission running with sub par ships until battleship rebalance.
This does not sound fun
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3267 - 2012-09-27 19:28:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
And 70km faloff, almost always fited with prop module and has best movement speed/agility in class. Oh and selectable damage type. Which proves that speed and range are actually important in L4.


Yeah?

Mixed damage type with every ammo. T2 projectile ammo is almost completely explosive. Only small amount of kinetic in mix.

As a "pure" Amarr pilot I don't move when I shoot so speed isn't important for me. But I don't say no to 70+ km optimal though.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#3268 - 2012-09-27 19:38:43 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
Ok, so I'll say this again.


As a pve pilot I enjoy grinding out lvl 4 missions to no end, then coming back to salvage in my noctis.

I've done lvl 4 missions in a drake, tengu, golem, raven, scorpion navy, and raven navy.

These are the only missile boats capable of running lvl 4 missions.

Now, other races have t1 battleships that are actually quite efficient at lvl 4 missions.

However, the raven is a terrible, terrible ship for pve in tank, dps, and effective dps.
Hell, a drake gets more effective dps than a cruise raven, and while a torp raven my have awesome dps, it has almost nothing in the way of tank.

Gun boats also have the availability of pirate faction ships that are amazing at lvl 4 missions, and even are superior to Marauders.
However, the turret Marauders are by far more superior in pve than a golem.

Now, we then have the tengu. Even though it doesn't have the potential dps of pirate turret boats, turret Marauders, or even some turret t1 bs's, it has pretty good effective dps.

Now, once this missile nerf hits the tengu will lose a good amount of range, but that's not really a problem.
The dps loss however is a problem.
That said, the tengu will still have more effective dps than a cruise raven.

So, you're probably wondering why I mention this.
Well, I've been playing Eve long enough to have built up a substantial amount of skills in order to fly lvl 4 missions with high efficiency.
I've got over 8 mil skill points in missiles alone.

So, how do you think I feel that knowing the only ship missile boat pilots have with high efficiency in lvl 4's is getting a large range AND damage nerf long before we receive any type of missile boat capable of replacing it?

Not very good.
It's kinda like if they came to drone boat lovers and told them they were nerfing the dominix to be able to only field 100bw of drones. Sure, that's just one less sentry but that makes a huge different.
However, those pilots would still have the dominix navy, ishtar, rattlesnake, and even the Mega and navy mega can field a full fleet of sentries, as well as the vindicator.
Sure, those last 3 ships drone get drone bonuses, but 5 sentries are pretty effective without bonuses.

That said, what do we missile boat pilots have?
I've already expressed that all of our battleships including the golem are subpar. The ratttlesnake is more of a drone boat, the drake has very low dps..

So, I guess I'm just stuck now doing lvl 4's in a subpar tengu the will have future nerfs coming until I finish cross training turrets and ships until I am able to get the high efficiency I've enjoyed from the tengu.

However, due to the tengu being limited to one damage type, it wasn't even all that effective. I had tried swapping to mission specific ammo before, but they didn't work any better than kinetic.
Now, my kinetic damage is getting nerfed down to the damage of other damage types, and they're getting nerfed down to below current standard drake dps.

So, not only will I be stuck using a damage type that is sub par in a lot of missions, but I'll also be stuck having sub par dps all together.

I do understand that the drake and tengu need nerfing.

However, I also understand that when bc rebalance comes around the drake will probably be compensated with bonuses to counter what it lost. It will probably get the full damage back, lose EHP, and get at least 15% of its range back.

So, it almost seems that this nerf was done so that cruisers themselves didn't have such long range/powerful weapons, and then they're going to rebalance the drake for this loss.

I'm ok with this.

I am just not happy with being stuck waiting for battleship rebalance in order to effectively use my missile skills in pve again.

Based of the current rate of balance, I'm betting it'll be a good year before they get to rebalancing battleships, and I have no idea when they'll even consider Marauders....

Like I said, this is my only problem with the nerf.
Nerf heavy missiles now, and leave missile boat mission running with sub par ships until battleship rebalance.
This does not sound fun


Sounds like you need to work on your missile skills then. The Golem, Rattlesnake, Navy Scorp, Navy Raven and normal Raven are all perfectly viable right now without any changes.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3269 - 2012-09-27 19:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
And 70km faloff, almost always fited with prop module and has best movement speed/agility in class. Oh and selectable damage type. Which proves that speed and range are actually important in L4.


Yeah?

Mixed damage type with every ammo. T2 projectile ammo is almost completely explosive. Only small amount of kinetic in mix.

As a "pure" Amarr pilot I don't move when I shoot so speed isn't important for me. But I don't say no to 70+ km optimal though.


Don't be so hypocrite. T2 projectile ammo are not used because it cuts falloff, so it's usually a RF ammo. Mixed damage is more a trait of blasters/lasers, projectile ammo are more pure than those. Pure kinetic is not that important because of Phased Plasma which is actually better against kinetic-weak targets than Hybrid ammo. L4 are more often blitzed than not so speed is of a key importance.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3270 - 2012-09-27 19:53:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
A mission fit with 25km optimal with longest range ammo and no prop mod? I see what you did there ..


Mach has 4,23km optimal but it is one of the best L4 mission ships...

And 70km faloff, almost always fited with prop module and has best movement speed/agility in class. Oh and selectable damage type. Which proves that speed and range are actually important in L4.


70km falloff with Gal BS V, only in a shield config with barrage, which is explosive/kinetic.

Which is a tad redundant when the thing only locks for like 80km.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3271 - 2012-09-27 19:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: serras bang
King Rothgar wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
Ok, so I'll say this again.


As a pve pilot I enjoy grinding out lvl 4 missions to no end, then coming back to salvage in my noctis.

I've done lvl 4 missions in a drake, tengu, golem, raven, scorpion navy, and raven navy.

These are the only missile boats capable of running lvl 4 missions.

Now, other races have t1 battleships that are actually quite efficient at lvl 4 missions.

However, the raven is a terrible, terrible ship for pve in tank, dps, and effective dps.
Hell, a drake gets more effective dps than a cruise raven, and while a torp raven my have awesome dps, it has almost nothing in the way of tank.

Gun boats also have the availability of pirate faction ships that are amazing at lvl 4 missions, and even are superior to Marauders.
However, the turret Marauders are by far more superior in pve than a golem.

Now, we then have the tengu. Even though it doesn't have the potential dps of pirate turret boats, turret Marauders, or even some turret t1 bs's, it has pretty good effective dps.

Now, once this missile nerf hits the tengu will lose a good amount of range, but that's not really a problem.
The dps loss however is a problem.
That said, the tengu will still have more effective dps than a cruise raven.

So, you're probably wondering why I mention this.
Well, I've been playing Eve long enough to have built up a substantial amount of skills in order to fly lvl 4 missions with high efficiency.
I've got over 8 mil skill points in missiles alone.

So, how do you think I feel that knowing the only ship missile boat pilots have with high efficiency in lvl 4's is getting a large range AND damage nerf long before we receive any type of missile boat capable of replacing it?

Not very good.
It's kinda like if they came to drone boat lovers and told them they were nerfing the dominix to be able to only field 100bw of drones. Sure, that's just one less sentry but that makes a huge different.
However, those pilots would still have the dominix navy, ishtar, rattlesnake, and even the Mega and navy mega can field a full fleet of sentries, as well as the vindicator.
Sure, those last 3 ships drone get drone bonuses, but 5 sentries are pretty effective without bonuses.

That said, what do we missile boat pilots have?
I've already expressed that all of our battleships including the golem are subpar. The ratttlesnake is more of a drone boat, the drake has very low dps..

So, I guess I'm just stuck now doing lvl 4's in a subpar tengu the will have future nerfs coming until I finish cross training turrets and ships until I am able to get the high efficiency I've enjoyed from the tengu.

However, due to the tengu being limited to one damage type, it wasn't even all that effective. I had tried swapping to mission specific ammo before, but they didn't work any better than kinetic.
Now, my kinetic damage is getting nerfed down to the damage of other damage types, and they're getting nerfed down to below current standard drake dps.

So, not only will I be stuck using a damage type that is sub par in a lot of missions, but I'll also be stuck having sub par dps all together.

I do understand that the drake and tengu need nerfing.

However, I also understand that when bc rebalance comes around the drake will probably be compensated with bonuses to counter what it lost. It will probably get the full damage back, lose EHP, and get at least 15% of its range back.

So, it almost seems that this nerf was done so that cruisers themselves didn't have such long range/powerful weapons, and then they're going to rebalance the drake for this loss.

I'm ok with this.

I am just not happy with being stuck waiting for battleship rebalance in order to effectively use my missile skills in pve again.

Based of the current rate of balance, I'm betting it'll be a good year before they get to rebalancing battleships, and I have no idea when they'll even consider Marauders....

Like I said, this is my only problem with the nerf.
Nerf heavy missiles now, and leave missile boat mission running with sub par ships until battleship rebalance.
This does not sound fun


Sounds like you need to work on your missile skills then. The Golem, Rattlesnake, Navy Scorp, Navy Raven and normal Raven are all perfectly viable right now without any changes.


seriously raven and navy raven being viable ? even with 2 bill of ship and navy/DED mods the cnr or raven is nowere near good enough for lvl 4's even with a full rack of med drones and t1 ammo due to explosive radius the raven is barely over 700 dps (with implants)

on top of that if you deploy drones on certian maps you will get full room agrro you need mission specific tank and now tds will also bugger missle ships on top of any jams that can an generaly do cripple ships in missions.

the attle snake is a hybrid ship and is drone bassed not missles seriously cal missle users are getting buggerd yet again.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#3272 - 2012-09-27 20:01:33 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
And 70km faloff, almost always fited with prop module and has best movement speed/agility in class. Oh and selectable damage type. Which proves that speed and range are actually important in L4.


Yeah?

Mixed damage type with every ammo. T2 projectile ammo is almost completely explosive. Only small amount of kinetic in mix.

As a "pure" Amarr pilot I don't move when I shoot so speed isn't important for me. But I don't say no to 70+ km optimal though.


Don't be so hypocrite. T2 projectile ammo are not used because it cuts falloff, so it's usually a RF ammo. Mixed damage is more a trait of blasters/lasers, projectile ammo are more pure than those. Pure kinetic is not that important because of Phased Plasma which is actually better against kinetic-weak targets than Hybrid ammo. L4 are more often blitzed than not so speed is of a key importance.


err.. have you seen barrage? 55-45% exp-kin and boosts falloff alot how do you think vagas work?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3273 - 2012-09-27 20:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
serras bang wrote:
seriously raven and navy raven being viable ? even with 2 bill of ship and navy/DED mods the cnr or raven is nowere near good enough for lvl 4's even with a full rack of med drones and t1 ammo due to explosive radius the raven is barely over 700 dps (with implants)


700 dps is around minimum for level 4s, true. But for example my NApoc does 700+ dps with Scorch and I don't really have problems in missions.

serras bang wrote:
on top of that if you deploy drones on certian maps you will get full room agrro you need mission specific tank and now tds will also bugger missle ships on top of any jams that can an generaly do cripple ships in missions.


In my Apoc I can easily take full room aggro in most BR/Sansha missions. Mostly because most of rats are dead before they get through my shields... Only missions where I don't want to do that are Worlds Collide last room and Sansha version of Vengeance.

If you think turret ships have easier time with Sansha TD: do The Blockade with Pulse Apoc and then tell us how easy we turret users have it.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3274 - 2012-09-27 20:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN
King Rothgar wrote:

Sounds like you need to work on your missile skills then. The Golem, Rattlesnake, Navy Scorp, Navy Raven and normal Raven are all perfectly viable right now without any changes.



I have every support skill to 5 and specialization 4 in heavy, torp, and cruise.

Every ship you just listed is viable in lvl 4 missions.

However, the Rattlesnake is not a missile boat. Just because it can fit missiles doesn't make it so.
It's a drone boat. If anyone ever jumped into a rattlesnake assuming they could rely on the missiles, they needed speciall classes.

As far as the rest of them, while they are perfectly viable, ALL of them are sub par.

The Raven is outclassed by just about every turret t1 bs.
The Navy Raven can get better torp damage than a golem, but if you want effective dps you're gonna lose a LOT of tank.
The Navy scorpion isn't a bad ship by any means, but since it's a dedicated cruise boat (no bonuses to range of torps) then it is sub par.

The golem.....Oh they Golem.

I had a Golem once.... I traded it straight up for a tengu.

Wasn't a bad ship on paper.

The problem was you needed all missile range skills to 5, t2 range rigs in both slots, and STILL could barely reach targets in missions.
Not to mention you needed 2 target painters for them to be effective and 3 for them to be optimal.

Even then you still had good tank.... On paper... However, you take that ship and throw it in a mission and it has the sig radius of a sun. On top of that its range put enemy ships in their optimal range, which meant by the time you were shooting them they were hammering the crap out of you with their full potential damage because you were soo large.
You couldn't hit frigs for crap and drones chewed through them like ants on a pepper mint (not very effective.)

However, this was all in the event you were even able to fight the mission.
If you went against guristas, you stayed perma jammed.
Serpentis, dampened to about a 15km targetting range at best.
Angels, they made you even bigger to the point where npcs could hit you like a wall hitting a tennis ball from over 100km away.
Blood raiders NOS the crap out of you, and you couldn't even have an effective cap stable tank to begin with.
AND NOW, with tracking disruptors working for missiles, It'll even get smacked around by Sansha.

So, while the ships may be able to fly missions, using them is about like bring a grapefruit to a gun fight.
You might hit something, but it'll eventually get ugly for you


Edit...

Oh, and on top of all those ships having crap for applied dps, they also have to worry about defender missiles which are all over the place in lvl 4 missions.
Take a raven with 600 dps cruise, about half of that is effective dps, and at least 1/6th of that gets taken out with every battleship you try to hit.

The Golem has massive potential to be a great mission ship. However, due to its personal weaknesses on top of the crap that all marauders share, well, the tengu outperforms it quite well.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3275 - 2012-09-27 20:33:41 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
serras bang wrote:
seriously raven and navy raven being viable ? even with 2 bill of ship and navy/DED mods the cnr or raven is nowere near good enough for lvl 4's even with a full rack of med drones and t1 ammo due to explosive radius the raven is barely over 700 dps (with implants)


700 dps is around minimum for level 4s, true. But for example my NApoc does 700+ dps with Scorch and I don't really have problems in missions.

A cruise raven, navy raven, or navy scorpion are really looking at less than 700 dps with furies if you want to still leave room for tank.
However, due to the fact that cruise missiles are terrible, you need at least 2 target painters for fury to be more effective against a bs than precision. 3 if you want max potential.
This means you either get tank and do about half of on paper damage against a bs, or you hope to god you can kill everything before it eats you alive when you try to fit target painters.

Quote:
serras bang wrote:
on top of that if you deploy drones on certian maps you will get full room agrro you need mission specific tank and now tds will also bugger missle ships on top of any jams that can an generaly do cripple ships in missions.


In my Apoc I can easily take full room aggro in most BR/Sansha missions. Mostly because most of rats are dead before they get through my shields... Only missions where I don't want to do that are Worlds Collide last room and Sansha version of Vengeance.

If you think turret ships have easier time with Sansha TD: do The Blockade with Pulse Apoc and then tell us how easy we turret users have it.


Neither of the missile boats listed can pull full aggro in just about any mission. Hell, sometimes they struggle staying alive just aggroing a single blob.
None of them can come anywhere close to tanking the last room of worlds collide.

The Golem and scorpion navy are probably the closest missile boats come to being on par with the tengu.

The Golem because of dps and tank bonus, thus allowing a couple TPs, and the SNI because it has 8 mid slots thus allowing the tank and dps of a raven, but with target painters.

however, they both have major issues such as the SNI not be able to torp fit with good range, and the golem being so massive with extreme weakness to any type of warfare, including simple dps.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#3276 - 2012-09-27 20:44:19 UTC
Confirming TD's, ECM, damps, TP's and neuts have no impact on anything not armed with missiles.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#3277 - 2012-09-27 20:45:18 UTC
MIrple wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
[quote=MIrple][quote=Sinigr Shadowsong][quote=Jorma Morkkis]

A mission fit with 25km optimal with longest range ammo and no prop mod? I see what you did there ..


I never fit a prop mod on my lvl 4 runners

And yet 25k optimal 28k fall off ask Mimitar pilots if they ever fight in optimal or always in fall off. Hell even the Kronos always fights in fall off its not at bad as you think.


You really have no clue, sorry. Minmatar and esp. Machariel work completely different from a Rokh like you gave us here, and Mach HAS a prop mod normally. If you want to do something efficient regarding ISK/h then your fitting is not viable.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3278 - 2012-09-27 20:47:10 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Confirming TD's, ECM, damps, TP's and neuts have no impact on anything not armed with missiles.


attaway to derail the conversation.

No one said that turrets weren't effected by this.

However, I was speaking directly about Marauders.

Which all suck against ewar more so than any other ship.

At least turret boats don't have to worry about defender missiles, cause it appears they're not being taken out of missions...
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#3279 - 2012-09-27 22:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Bloutok wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
...


So, heavy missiles are total crap if the ship does not allow for any kind of bonus ? Really ? We are nerfing a crappy crap weapon system ?


nah, ur not understanding what ppl are saying

heavies are generally OP in range, requirements and dps to other long range weapon systems. only ppl who use heavy missiles all the time dnt seem to see this.

however, heavy missiles rarely make suitable secondary weapons on things like a stabber because 1) there is no bonus to missile damage like there is turrets 2) lows are used for gyros and there is no space for BCS as well 3) the launchers still take up precious grid and CPU.
with the lack of advantages to using them and the restrictions they place on ur fit its no wonder they (and HAMs) are so rarely used as secondary weapons.
with the drone bay, u cant really swap it for something more appropriate, so ull always be using them as secondary systems.

to whoever said that nerfing heavy missiles would be like taking 25mb bandwidth from the domi, u are a nit wit?
are u even remotely suggesting that drones are overpowered? and no one is taking launcher slots away from any missile boats are they?
surely a less ignorant argument would be to suggest how drone pilots would react if drones had their RoF increased from 4 secs to 5 secs. even if that did happen, i doubt they'd react like this and start comparing sentry damage to AC's and blasters.

dear lord

P.S. when was the last time u saw a missile ship use turrets as a secondary weapon system. gotta love those caracals and ravens fit with rails eh?...oh

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#3280 - 2012-09-27 23:10:35 UTC
Why do missiles have to be made more like guns? Why not just get rid of missiles and turn them into a new type of gun, if you want gun-like performance from them?

This nerf makes no sense.