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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Rita May
State War Academy
Caldari State
#221 - 2012-09-18 16:01:54 UTC
Have to agree here, if that HM nerv is going live ships like the Nighthawk are going from so-so to terribad.

For me right now the HM vs. HAM PVE(!)-question is nonexistent because of range and that little skill called guided missle precision that gives me at least "some" dmg on small-sig targets.
I don't PvP much with missles, therefor won't comment on it.

Melina Lin wrote:
...
Weren't these of all missiles the ones with the absolute shortest range? I hope they still make it out the launch tubes without a tracking mod. Cool


I am smirking right now, need to wait if I need to cry because it was "too" true...

cu
Cpt Gobla
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2012-09-18 16:02:05 UTC
Sellendis wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Sellendis wrote:
One working weapon system nerfed with range and dmg? Ok, what do we get in return?
Can we get 20% DPS and range buff for minmatar ACs? It would only be fair.
You might have a future at CCP. You should put in an application.



Well, some buff to most under-used race in PvP would be nice.
Did anyone even see a minmatar BC or Comm. ship in the AT X?
They need some love, and no, i am not just saying this couse i have AC trained to hell.

I dont think Heavys need a nerf this strong, nerf range...ok.
Nerf dmg by 20% is WTF? How is that balancing when blasters were almost useless and a minor buff of 5% makes them ok, but this deserves range and dmg nerf of 20% each....i dont see the logic here.


I don't think what you watched was the Alliance Tournament...

Were there like robots with a moving red light in the place of eyes?
Or maybe lightsabers?
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2012-09-18 16:02:31 UTC
Sellendis wrote:
Did anyone even see a minmatar BC or Comm. ship in the AT X?

Uh. Sleipnir, Cyclone. Almost 300 fielded ships, that's basically NONE~
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#224 - 2012-09-18 16:02:53 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:


m8 you just need to bring more ships than they have tracking disruptors. Eveiseasy


Yes, because every fight is not a solo fight

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Doddy
Excidium.
#225 - 2012-09-18 16:03:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

As SOON as these changes go live on the test server I'm buying ever single Tracking Computer in jita :)


lolitwillbewaytolatethen
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#226 - 2012-09-18 16:03:04 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
As well, if you are a turret boat, if you are getting your tracking disrupted, you can just minimize transversal to hit for your full DPS. With missiles, you cant ever do anything to fix your explosion radius/velocity, except use a TP. It's basically like "You can't do your maximum DPS anymore if I TD you". That's stupid, specific piloting should be able to combat ewar (Getting close up/minimizing transversal)

People are saying "oh, just fit a TC and then you nullify the effect of the TD on you!" Yeah, because my shield tanking missile ship needs another mid slot ewar defence as it is! I already can't fit ECCM, Painters, TDs, or anything else, because I need a slot for a disruptor, web, and MWD! That means the minimum of 6 slots to fit a 3-slot tank and 3 slot ewar is not enough to combat ewar or fight back in any way. Adding TCs to that makes combating ewar on a missile boat even more of a pain!

So what you're saying is, the guy who fitted a TD might not really be able to get effective use from that slot vs a turret ship, but you shouldn't have to also fit 1 module to counter theirs? Even if it would almost always help your dps?
Also, TEs in lows, keep your shield tank.
Gary Goat
XDC-UK
#227 - 2012-09-18 16:03:40 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Here are some raw numbers useful for understanding the proposed HML, beam laser and artillery changes:

250mm Railgun II with Spike:
DPS: 20
Alpha: 92
Optimal: 65 km
Falloff: 15 km
Cap/sec: -1.1
PG: 187.2
CPU: 31.5

Heavy Beam Laser II with Aurora:
DPS: 21
Alpha: 91
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 10 km
Cap/sec: -3.8
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 27.8

720mm Artillery II with Tremor:
DPS: 17
Alpha: 242
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 22 km
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 24

Heavy Missile Launcher II with Caldari Navy Scourge:
DPS: 23 (previously 29)
Alpha: 189 (previously 237)
Range: 63 km (previously 84)
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 94.5
CPU: 41.3

This is without any ship bonuses. My view on this is that a 25% range and a 20% dps nerf only seem ridiculous if one ignores just how much better HMLs were than other weapon systems.



Not empty quoting.

All the people comparing HMLs to blasters and ACs seem to be missing the point completely.
xVKx
The First Foundation
Legion of xXDEATHXx
#228 - 2012-09-18 16:04:03 UTC
yep... allright CCP... lets nerf everything in EVE... Cry





(btw what are u smoking there? 20% DMG and 25% flightrange nerf at once... huh...)
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#229 - 2012-09-18 16:04:47 UTC
The nighthawk already has lower dps than all the other field command ships, and this change to heavy missiles is going to make it even worse. Why would anyone fly a nighthawk after these changes? CCP could come back and say that command ships will be rebalanced as well, but I would bet that will happen well after the missile changes are put in place. That leaves the nighthawk very much out in the cold.
Redd Dredd
State War Academy
Caldari State
#230 - 2012-09-18 16:05:16 UTC
My poor Damnation. Now with even less damage. :(
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#231 - 2012-09-18 16:06:41 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
Ok, the cane got a nerf and it deserved it.

But why does the Drake get a buff? (less shields, more gank)

Drakes will be even more op than now...

/me is sad



it gets a reduced range... so if you want to project your weapons further out you will need to fit a te or tracking comp... so this is really a nerf to hml drakes and a boost to hamm drakes...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
JEFFRAIDER
THIGH GUYS
#232 - 2012-09-18 16:07:16 UTC
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHA

another nerf Lol

first where supers...
then titans...
then lets kill otec and nerf tec...
now lets kill the drake blob, the welpcanes blob and all tengus blob (what a coincidence, all ship doctrines the CFC uses in mass, lol, pure coincidence of course, no tinfoil teories here)

This just make my work day

Can't you see we are like the Borg, we will just adapt and tomorrow we will just use "put here the best low cost ship name vs dps ratio here" to blob all our enemies again and again and again!

...and 6 months from now we all be here again, nerfing the ship(s) and/or weapon system(s) we will be using at that time...

You can try, but you can't stop the blob !Big smile

Fake edit: I can see all carriers beeing nerfed next.... "no sentry drones for you" Lol


JFYI champion but the CFC were the ones most happy at the super nerf

o7
Steelshine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#233 - 2012-09-18 16:07:37 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
At which point do you factor in the fact that missiles (unlike beams and projectiles) have travel times and that missiles (unlike beams and projectiles) can be destroyed by smart bombs.



Lol Have you ever seen that actually done?


Every day.

Some people actually fight other players.
Kriorth
Deadspace Knights
#234 - 2012-09-18 16:07:51 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Here are some raw numbers useful for understanding the proposed HML, beam laser and artillery changes:

250mm Railgun II with Spike:>Needs buff, medium rails are the most useless thing in the game currently.
DPS: 20
Alpha: 92
Optimal: 65 km
Falloff: 15 km
Cap/sec: -1.1
PG: 187.2
CPU: 31.5
Time to hit: instant

Heavy Beam Laser II with Aurora:>Needs buff, probably will get one cause they suck
DPS: 21
Alpha: 91
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 10 km
Cap/sec: -3.8
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 27.8
Time to hit: instant

720mm Artillery II with Tremor:
DPS: 17
Alpha: 242
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 22 km
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 24
Time to hit: instant

Heavy Missile Launcher II with Caldari Navy Scourge:
DPS: 23 (previously 29)
Alpha: 189 (previously 237)
Range: 63 km (previously 84)
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 94.5
CPU: 41.3
Time to hit: 10 seconds

This is without any ship bonuses. My view on this is that a 25% range and a 20% dps nerf only seem ridiculous if one ignores just how much better HMLs were than other weapon systems.


fixed


Except that missiles shouldn't be doing maximum damage against moving targets. There isn't a reduction in damage to a moving target from a railgun is there?
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2012-09-18 16:09:15 UTC
20%? seriously? 5 or even 10 would be ok, but 20% is the same as slapping people who have HM skills trained and kick them right on the groins.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#236 - 2012-09-18 16:10:49 UTC
Sad thing is that Tracking Distruptor will be over power after this change, there will be lot of TD on every ship after this change.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#237 - 2012-09-18 16:11:23 UTC
I would like to thank Fozzie for buffing all the things I like to fly, and nerfing all the things that shoot me down on a regular basis Pirate
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#238 - 2012-09-18 16:11:28 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
At which point do you factor in the fact that missiles (unlike beams and projectiles) have travel times and that missiles (unlike beams and projectiles) can be destroyed by smart bombs.



Lol Have you ever seen that actually done?


???

Yea, like every single time my alliance has fought CFC and the FC called for FIREWALL ships. Which has been A LOT lately in Tribute lol.
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#239 - 2012-09-18 16:12:06 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
there will be lot of TD on every ship after this change.
How?

Will someone please tell me how we get free TDs on all the ships?!
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#240 - 2012-09-18 16:12:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Lili Lu wrote:

Fozzie, are you guys considering any slight nerf to TD base strength? Because if not, everyone and his mother will be fitting TDs. It seems to me that the module could use little nerf, so as not to become the must have "multispec of doom", and to make the speicialized ships more desirable in fleets.


Yup it's something we're looking very closely at.


yeah give it the same treatment that rsd got back in the day... just up the bonus on specialty ships so not every one fits one...

i mean you cant find a ship in faction warfare that does not have a TD for this reason...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.