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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2181 - 2012-09-21 03:45:10 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ark Anhammar wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yes there is a substantive reason. It's called "balance".

"Balance" as in my friends who fly Legions and Loki in gangs have to put up with the same TD as a Proteus does? Or is it "balance" in that "I need special modules made *juuuuust* for my missile ship"? That kind of balance? Yeah, that's really balanced.

And everyone saying that TDs "need to be balanced" by having different modules: TDs are currently NOT balanced in that they don't affect missiles at all. Having them affect missile launchers, and giving missile launchers a way to combat TDs with allowing TCs and TEs to affect them *IS* balancing them. Get over yourselves and learn to deal with the same problems the rest of us have had to deal with since we started playing.

So in other words, you want a single module that works on disrupting the weapons systems of every single ship.


That's probably what he wants. As I pilot that flies a curse and uses TD, having such a thing would be overpowered for a single module. It needs to be like how ECM have racial types and the weakass multispec.


Exactly. The balancing factor against TD becoming too prolific is the fact that it doesn't work against missile ships. If it did, you would see a hell of a lot more ships fitting TD, and so your friends who fly Legions and Lokis and Proteuses in gangs will have even more problems with TD than they do now, because everybody they encounter will fit it. Those fitting TD have things easier for them - they don't have to make fitting choices depending upon the enemies they think they're likely to encounter.

Putting missile and turret TD into a single module dumbs down PVP. It's the same as if you take out racial ECM and just gave multispec the same stats as race-specific ECM all across the board.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Bloutok
Perkone
Caldari State
#2182 - 2012-09-21 04:08:51 UTC
TD's effect might be to force everything within scram range, well, not everything... Tier3.....

Would TD also work on remote rep range ?
ECM range ?
Everything including trowing the kitchen sink range ?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2183 - 2012-09-21 04:13:41 UTC
I will probaly get flamed for this but here goes...
how about making the disruptor require scripts. IE, no effect unscripted
then break the scripts into 4
tracking script
range script
missile guidance script (flight time)
anti precision script (explosion velocity/radius)

That would give amarr good verity, but not an i win button

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2184 - 2012-09-21 04:33:54 UTC
Bloutok wrote:
TD's effect might be to force everything within scram range, well, not everything... Tier3.....

Would TD also work on remote rep range ?
ECM range ?
Everything including trowing the kitchen sink range ?


No but a damp damn sure does.
Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#2185 - 2012-09-21 04:35:40 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will probaly get flamed for this but here goes...
how about making the disruptor require scripts. IE, no effect unscripted
then break the scripts into 4
tracking script
range script
missile guidance script (flight time)
anti precision script (explosion velocity/radius)

That would give amarr good verity, but not an i win button


No flame. I like this idea as an alternative to making an entirely new module for missile disruption.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#2186 - 2012-09-21 04:37:55 UTC
Eckyy wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will probaly get flamed for this but here goes...
how about making the disruptor require scripts. IE, no effect unscripted
then break the scripts into 4
tracking script
range script
missile guidance script (flight time)
anti precision script (explosion velocity/radius)

That would give amarr good verity, but not an i win button


No flame. I like this idea as an alternative to making an entirely new module for missile disruption.


Seconding, good balancing factor against TD.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2187 - 2012-09-21 04:55:43 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Eckyy wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will probaly get flamed for this but here goes...
how about making the disruptor require scripts. IE, no effect unscripted
then break the scripts into 4
tracking script
range script
missile guidance script (flight time)
anti precision script (explosion velocity/radius)

That would give amarr good verity, but not an i win button


No flame. I like this idea as an alternative to making an entirely new module for missile disruption.


Seconding, good balancing factor against TD.

I fail to see how that makes any difference.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Eckyy
Fourth District Sentinels
The Caldari Fourth District
#2188 - 2012-09-21 04:56:25 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Eckyy wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will probaly get flamed for this but here goes...
how about making the disruptor require scripts. IE, no effect unscripted
then break the scripts into 4
tracking script
range script
missile guidance script (flight time)
anti precision script (explosion velocity/radius)

That would give amarr good verity, but not an i win button


No flame. I like this idea as an alternative to making an entirely new module for missile disruption.


Seconding, good balancing factor against TD.


Agreed. Although a TD ship would still be able to disrupt any target just by changing a script, it would protect split weapon systems and force script changes between target changes.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2189 - 2012-09-21 05:33:00 UTC
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:
Then just need to revamp missile mechanics to be in line with guns. That will solve everything.


You mean like that missile will "teleport" next to target ship after launch and explodes. Yeah, if you can find the way to explain how it is possible...

... But of course 100+ km range on instantly hitting missiles... No thanks.
Rita May
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2190 - 2012-09-21 05:44:13 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:
Then just need to revamp missile mechanics to be in line with guns. That will solve everything.


You mean like that missile will "teleport" next to target ship after launch and explodes. Yeah, if you can find the way to explain how it is possible...

... But of course 100+ km range on instantly hitting missiles... No thanks.


not that i want that, but your point about the teleporting thingy...

Ask the projectils or hybrid charges how they do it all day long in EVE Roll

The only "nearly" instant-hit weaponsystem, from that point of view, would be the lazors Blink

cu
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2191 - 2012-09-21 05:48:19 UTC
Rita May wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:
Then just need to revamp missile mechanics to be in line with guns. That will solve everything.


You mean like that missile will "teleport" next to target ship after launch and explodes. Yeah, if you can find the way to explain how it is possible...

... But of course 100+ km range on instantly hitting missiles... No thanks.


not that i want that, but your point about the teleporting thingy...

Ask the projectils or hybrid charges how they do it all day long in EVE Roll

The only "nearly" instant-hit weaponsystem, from that point of view, would be the lazors Blink

cu


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#2192 - 2012-09-21 06:18:33 UTC
Krystyn wrote:
Who dreams up these horrible ideas?
The inventory UI is still worse than it was before.
Will it ever be as functional as it was before. We're like 6 months past and still not there yet


Never going to happen.

They made a few chages when the shitstorm happened to calm people down and pretend that they were going to fix it.

Now they have moved on to the next piece of crap that they will break and not fix.

And the next....and the next.....
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#2193 - 2012-09-21 06:23:35 UTC
Anabaric wrote:
Reading through the complaints, and praise both seem pretty equal in numbers...

CCP must be doing something right. Cool


:double facepalm
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2194 - 2012-09-21 06:32:16 UTC
Eckyy wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Eckyy wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will probaly get flamed for this but here goes...
how about making the disruptor require scripts. IE, no effect unscripted
then break the scripts into 4
tracking script
range script
missile guidance script (flight time)
anti precision script (explosion velocity/radius)

That would give amarr good verity, but not an i win button


No flame. I like this idea as an alternative to making an entirely new module for missile disruption.


Seconding, good balancing factor against TD.


Agreed. Although a TD ship would still be able to disrupt any target just by changing a script, it would protect split weapon systems and force script changes between target changes.



Here's an idea to balance this suggestion.

How about swapping scripts is given a long exchange time of say... 30 seconds?

While this may still give that one module full functionality, having to swap scripts would require planning ahead or being vulnerable for a moderate amount of time.

As well, with more future ship balancing CCP could give certain ships a bonus to the exchange time of scripts.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#2195 - 2012-09-21 06:35:03 UTC
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


All Missiles

Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flighttime*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players.

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.


You are having a late April fools joke yes?

So in that respect I'm going to lose :

106 DPS
4.5 Seconds of flight time that's a loss of 37km with current figures.

Are you going crazy over there in Iceland or what? What in gods name got into your thick skulls about reducing heavy missile damage?

Theyre not exactly awesome DPS as they are. What was the thought process for making medicore DPS.....worse?





There i fixed that quote for you.

Also HML's were the highest dps long range weapon by FAR, and they will still have more dps than comparable long range weapons after the nerf.

l2p?


but if long range guns switch to short range ammo, does their DPS NOT exceed that of the drake? Can the drake change to HAM's mid fight?



Exactly the point
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#2196 - 2012-09-21 06:56:12 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
You guys are impossible. All you care about is your precious 'do everything' Drake.



And all you care about is stopping the Drake blobs that are currently kicking your ass Big smile
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#2197 - 2012-09-21 06:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Soon Shin
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Eckyy wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will probaly get flamed for this but here goes...
how about making the disruptor require scripts. IE, no effect unscripted
then break the scripts into 4
tracking script
range script
missile guidance script (flight time)
anti precision script (explosion velocity/radius)

That would give amarr good verity, but not an i win button


No flame. I like this idea as an alternative to making an entirely new module for missile disruption.


Seconding, good balancing factor against TD.

I fail to see how that makes any difference.


Exactly, it changes nothing. You have an all in one god module that disrupts every dps ship with a switch of a script.

ECM is balanced in a way that it requires fitting the correct racials to be effective.
RSD is pointless against fast locking close range ships which lock faster than you can.
Target painters is useful for locking faster and hitting targets harder, but does not have an overpowering effect.

The New tracking disruptors however will. Imagine a significant reduction in range or tracking reduction against missiles and turrets. All you need is a single module and can change scripts on the fly to affect all dps ships in the game.

Having it divided between Turrets and Missiles will force the pilot to choose turrets or missiles and prevent it from becoming overpowered.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2198 - 2012-09-21 07:12:08 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
The New tracking disruptors however will. Imagine a significant reduction in range or tracking reduction against missiles and turrets. All you need is a single module and can change scripts on the fly to affect all dps ships in the game.


How about this:
- Two scripts for every weapons system in game (8 scripts in total) and for example projectile range disruption script doesn't have any effect on lasers, hybrids or missiles.
- Switching script takes 30-60 seconds
- When switching scripts you can't activate any other module or move
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2199 - 2012-09-21 07:12:10 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Rita May wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:
Then just need to revamp missile mechanics to be in line with guns. That will solve everything.


You mean like that missile will "teleport" next to target ship after launch and explodes. Yeah, if you can find the way to explain how it is possible...

... But of course 100+ km range on instantly hitting missiles... No thanks.


not that i want that, but your point about the teleporting thingy...

Ask the projectils or hybrid charges how they do it all day long in EVE Roll

The only "nearly" instant-hit weaponsystem, from that point of view, would be the lazors Blink

cu


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun


Those systems don't bring speed even remotely close to insta-hitting target from 200km. If you assume that they are SO advanced to achieve speed like 1000km/s that I can assume that Caldari missiles are SO advanced that can do magic things too. Also artillery is not based on Railgun/Coilgun.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2200 - 2012-09-21 07:18:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun


Those systems don't bring speed even remotely close to insta-hitting target from 200km. If you assume that they are SO advanced to achieve speed like 1000km/s that I can assume that Caldari missiles are SO advanced that can do magic things too. Also artillery is not based on Railgun/Coilgun.


Is 7 times the speed of sound fast enough?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/navy-electromagnetic-railgun-video_n_1311251.html

Looks more like you don't understand differences between missiles and railguns/coilguns.