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Crime & Punishment

 
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The reality of the goon freighter ganking in Uedema and neighboring systems.

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BillyBanter
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-09-18 15:24:41 UTC
I've the goons do this for a while now, they have multiple stabbers keeping freighters bumped at gates. Even without the gankers coming, they are harassing freighters anyway. Isn't this against the rules?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#62 - 2012-09-18 15:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
The bumping mechanic is massively flawed. Always has been.

Fix that and you fix all kinds of problems.

I don't recall ever seeing a rowboat being the cause of fear to the crew of an Aircraft Carrier. The same in this game should apply. A freighter or Titan pilot should not have to worry about being bumped out of alignment by an Ibis. Period.

Of all the dumb things that need fixing in this game, the bumping mechanic is near the top of the list.

A ship that is so massive it needs a few minutes just to align can get bumped like a plastic bath toy by a little maggot in a ship orders of magnitude smaller? What a joke!

Mr Epeen Cool
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-09-18 15:26:39 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
PI Maker wrote:
Robert De'Arneth wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
The problem here is it's way too easy, and too cheap, to get hugely profitable kills.

It's risk vs reward, the risk isn't much, it's known to and accepted by the ganker long before weapon is fired. A simple solution would be to increase freighter HP by 300%. 100k EHP isn't very much for what is supposed to be EVE's largest freight vessel.



No the simple solution would be if you feel you are going to be hit bring freinds. It is a freighter not a fighter. There are game mechanics to prevent this, it is called bring a fleet, or risk your ship, it's that whole risk vs reward thing. Big smile

please show me how to beat an alpha strike. you'll be the most famous man in eve


None of those goon pirates on eve-kill use alpha strikes. How do I know for sure? I'm on some of them, and I produced many of the ships. In High Sec, using freighters to move the materials, that weren't ganked, cause I'm not dumb.


Even if you did use alpha strikes, the key is to not get struck at all. Be it a dps kill or an alpha kill, don't be worthy of ganking and you will evade the strike. It's as easy as that.
PI Maker
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-09-18 15:27:24 UTC
BillyBanter wrote:
[quote=Riot Girl]No, they keep the gankers logged off, probably easier on them and makes people less aware that there is a gank trap waiting.

Once a target jumps in, they bump the freighter to prevent it from warping or leaving, and they also shoot it with a rookie ship character so even if the pilot logs off, he will remain in space long enough for their gank characters to get in and get the kill. There's no escape once they've started bumping you, you can not get out of it. Concord will not help you, even though the bumper is effectively acting as a warp scrambler.

that doesn't sound correct.

the km's i've seen indicate they're using the two system method to avoid serious sec status hits for the whole crew. they mostly gank it on one side, it jumps through, they finish it on the other side. the group on the first side gets the aggression sec hit, but not the kill. also, i don't think they would shoot it with a rookie ship first since that would start the concord countdown early. it would also be unnecessary, as the gankers could shoot it for the same effect.

bumping though is a real problem. its the only form of combat that doesn't flag you for aggression.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-09-18 15:29:52 UTC
PI Maker wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
[quote=Riot Girl]No, they keep the gankers logged off, probably easier on them and makes people less aware that there is a gank trap waiting.

Once a target jumps in, they bump the freighter to prevent it from warping or leaving, and they also shoot it with a rookie ship character so even if the pilot logs off, he will remain in space long enough for their gank characters to get in and get the kill. There's no escape once they've started bumping you, you can not get out of it. Concord will not help you, even though the bumper is effectively acting as a warp scrambler.

that doesn't sound correct.

the km's i've seen indicate they're using the two system method to avoid serious sec status hits for the whole crew. they mostly gank it on one side, it jumps through, they finish it on the other side. the group on the first side gets the aggression sec hit, but not the kill. also, i don't think they would shoot it with a rookie ship first since that would start the concord countdown early. it would also be unnecessary, as the gankers could shoot it for the same effect.

bumping though is a real problem. its the only form of combat that doesn't flag you for aggression.


You shoot the freighter with the rookie ship t put it in pvp mode. Then he cannot log-off to use the 2 minutes rules to avoid the gank. He's stuck there no matter what for 15 minutes.
Ravenous Wolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2012-09-18 15:30:59 UTC
I'm trying to get through the system in a freighter now, but a goon keeps on bumping me away from the gate, and he won't let me warp anywhere else either. After 15 minutes of him bumping me i now give up, it's pointless even trying, for now i quit.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#67 - 2012-09-18 15:31:26 UTC
WTFAMILOOKINGAT wrote:
Your suggestion is one of the stupidest things I've seen on the forums. That's just what we need, restricting people from what systems they can jump into Roll

Here's a thought, perhaps don't fly through the system where people are getting ganked?


You can't have read many stupid things on the forums then, because it's an awesome suggestion. I've never played an MMO other than Eve which allows you to:

1. Attack member of your own side
2. Grief so blatantly without developer intervention

It needs to be fixed. Even if it only applied to High-Sec that would be better than nothing.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#68 - 2012-09-18 15:32:27 UTC
Ravenous Wolf wrote:
I'm trying to get through the system in a freighter now, but a goon keeps on bumping me away from the gate, and he won't let me warp anywhere else either. After 15 minutes of him bumping me i now give up, it's pointless even trying, for now i quit.


What happens to your ship in game if you just pull your router cable? I presume it must disappear, allowing you to log on later when the tards have gotten bored?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
PI Maker
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-09-18 15:34:25 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PI Maker wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
[quote=Riot Girl]No, they keep the gankers logged off, probably easier on them and makes people less aware that there is a gank trap waiting.

Once a target jumps in, they bump the freighter to prevent it from warping or leaving, and they also shoot it with a rookie ship character so even if the pilot logs off, he will remain in space long enough for their gank characters to get in and get the kill. There's no escape once they've started bumping you, you can not get out of it. Concord will not help you, even though the bumper is effectively acting as a warp scrambler.

that doesn't sound correct.

the km's i've seen indicate they're using the two system method to avoid serious sec status hits for the whole crew. they mostly gank it on one side, it jumps through, they finish it on the other side. the group on the first side gets the aggression sec hit, but not the kill. also, i don't think they would shoot it with a rookie ship first since that would start the concord countdown early. it would also be unnecessary, as the gankers could shoot it for the same effect.

bumping though is a real problem. its the only form of combat that doesn't flag you for aggression.


You shoot the freighter with the rookie ship t put it in pvp mode. Then he cannot log-off to use the 2 minutes rules to avoid the gank. He's stuck there no matter what for 15 minutes.

it seems unnecessary if the rest of the crew is sitting right there. why not just start the gank for the same effect?
Robert De'Arneth
#70 - 2012-09-18 15:38:27 UTC
PI Maker wrote:
Robert De'Arneth wrote:
post on your main.

why?



The why is pretty simple, if you make an alt like you do, no one will buy what you are selling, because no one really hears a coward.

Just off the top of my head what can help ? Take into account, I would never fly into a system where the ship kill is high, only idiots do so.* They made a map filter for a reason. * this should be the 1st thing you do no matter where you travel* If they do not and lose a ship, then they have no one to blame but themselves. Big smile

What you can do to help, Scout ahead, look at who is in the local, talk to the freighter pilot. If you see suspisous people, do not go into that system. You really do not even need a freind, one of your alts with no skills flying shuttle can do this. The op was moving a lot of freight, he got popped because of it, to be honest he deserved it, I find it funny that he is to wimpy to post from his main, I think he knows his tears will fall on the ground and be stepped on.

Anyways, let me tell you what to do when you lose a ship, you go buy another, if you are flying a freighter and cannot afford to replace it, you should not be flying it.



I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-09-18 15:39:41 UTC
PI Maker wrote:

that doesn't sound correct.

the km's i've seen indicate they're using the two system method to avoid serious sec status hits for the whole crew. they mostly gank it on one side, it jumps through, they finish it on the other side. the group on the first side gets the aggression sec hit, but not the kill. also, i don't think they would shoot it with a rookie ship first since that would start the concord countdown early. it would also be unnecessary, as the gankers could shoot it for the same effect.

bumping though is a real problem. its the only form of combat that doesn't flag you for aggression.


You're both missing a lot of the facts and strategy, actually. But I'm not going interfere to much more with my income than I already have. Eve is a fun, interesting, and sometimes maddeningly complicated game. I would suggest, especially for the new players, that instead of knee-jerk emotional reactions to things that seem unbalanced you instead invest some time into understanding the mechanics behind how and why these things are done the way they are. You'll often find that you were dismissive of mechanics or play styles that are at once far more rewarding than you thought, and far more difficult to maintain than you guessed.
WTFAMILOOKINGAT
Horizon Research Group
#72 - 2012-09-18 15:42:48 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
WTFAMILOOKINGAT wrote:
Your suggestion is one of the stupidest things I've seen on the forums. That's just what we need, restricting people from what systems they can jump into Roll

Here's a thought, perhaps don't fly through the system where people are getting ganked?


You can't have read many stupid things on the forums then, because it's an awesome suggestion. I've never played an MMO other than Eve which allows you to:

1. Attack member of your own side
2. Grief so blatantly without developer intervention

It needs to be fixed. Even if it only applied to High-Sec that would be better than nothing.


Just because you're the same race in Eve doesn't mean you are on the 'same side'. That's the beauty of choice. You are trying to take that away.
Ravenous Wolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-09-18 15:44:25 UTC
Is bumping freighters to stop them from warpin away or jumping an exploit? They did it to me just for lulz and since i logged off they've been doing it to someone else. Just goto the system and see for yourself, there's no motive of profit, it's purely to grief.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-09-18 15:48:58 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Ravenous Wolf wrote:
I'm trying to get through the system in a freighter now, but a goon keeps on bumping me away from the gate, and he won't let me warp anywhere else either. After 15 minutes of him bumping me i now give up, it's pointless even trying, for now i quit.


What happens to your ship in game if you just pull your router cable? I presume it must disappear, allowing you to log on later when the tards have gotten bored?


As with all disconnects and logoffs, your ship enters warp in an arbitrary direction to a safe spot. At which point it waits out it's aggression timer, if any, before vanishing. Upon logging back in the ship reappears and immediately initiates warp to it's original position. There are some tricks, exploits, and complications to this; but that's the gist.
Elliot Plaude
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-09-18 15:49:05 UTC
sure looks like those 6 ships had to risk a lot to kill this freighter in high sec....

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14499546
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#76 - 2012-09-18 15:53:07 UTC
Seconding the "fix bumping" sentiment. Fix bumping, identify and deal with repeated character recycling, but don't nerf high sec ganking itself.

And stop going to Jita. Seriously. There are so many other places you could inflate the economy in if you wanted to. Alternatively, do the following if you really really really have to go through a known ganking system:

1. use a scout Shocked

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-09-18 15:55:39 UTC
Elliot Plaude wrote:
sure looks like those 6 ships had to risk a lot to kill this freighter in high sec....

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14499546


That is a beautiful piece of gamesmanship right there. These guys are playing EVE at a high level. The have a deep understanding of aggression, tanking, and DPS mechanics, and sacrificed just under a billion in ships and fittings. They deserved all the rewards they reaped, and we should all aspire to play at that level in whatever our chosen style is.
Din Chao
#78 - 2012-09-18 15:56:59 UTC
Elliot Plaude wrote:
sure looks like those 6 ships had to risk a lot to kill this freighter in high sec....

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14499546

I don't understand why people carry around high value prints in a ship with a giant bullseye painted on the side...
Robert De'Arneth
#79 - 2012-09-18 16:00:12 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Elliot Plaude wrote:
sure looks like those 6 ships had to risk a lot to kill this freighter in high sec....

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14499546

I don't understand why people carry around high value prints in a ship with a giant bullseye painted on the side...



So they can come to the forums and cry how cruel the EVE world is and try get some sympathy from other people who have lost ships because they failed to understand Rule # 23.

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
Ravenous Wolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2012-09-18 16:03:13 UTC
I see the focus is on players who carry massive cargos. What about people like me? They are bumping my freighter for the lulz, and doing it to others too. It's pure grief, i cannot warp away, i cannot get to the gate, i cannot do anything except log out from the game and hope to find them gone later.