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Crime & Punishment

 
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The reality of the goon freighter ganking in Uedema and neighboring systems.

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Kheeria
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#461 - 2012-09-23 18:11:00 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
I've already proposed the solution to this. Make it impossible to attack anyone else from your own race. Make it impossible for other races to enter the Low-Sec or High-Sec space of any other race.

Then Goon Swarm or any other fuckwits will then have to grief in nullsec where they can be avoided.

Simples.

How the **** would that work? How would FW take lowsec systems from other races if they can't enter the system? And does that mean that you can't enter CFC space since it's ours and you're not blue? How would we fight each other? Maybe you should go back to the drawing board on this...
Kheeria
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#462 - 2012-09-23 18:18:11 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Jesus Christ, You pubbies ***** about any thing that requires you to actually play the game. I outlined clearly in the last thread about this topic five strategies to avoid pirates. It's easy if you take a few moments to understand the mechanics of high sec and the razor thin margin of time, dps/alpha, and risk pirates are working on.

My experience as a high sec pirate, industrialist, and small gang PVPer leads me to believe that the EHP of freighters is perfectly in line with the risk-reward ratio necessary to foster a strong economy. Freighter ganking doesn't just benefit the pirates with an income source. It stimulates production to meet their new purchasing power, while increasing profits due to increased scarcity.

The problem with decreased risk is a vibrant economy requires large amounts of ISK moving freely among a large number of people. The sterile future your changes would lead to is a future of stagnant meaningless wealth automated in production and transfer; sitting idly in wallets and hangars unspent, under valued, and ultimately dead.


My suggestion is better TBH.

No it is not.
Kheeria
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#463 - 2012-09-23 18:22:20 UTC
PI Maker wrote:
Robert De'Arneth wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
The problem here is it's way too easy, and too cheap, to get hugely profitable kills.

It's risk vs reward, the risk isn't much, it's known to and accepted by the ganker long before weapon is fired. A simple solution would be to increase freighter HP by 300%. 100k EHP isn't very much for what is supposed to be EVE's largest freight vessel.



No the simple solution would be if you feel you are going to be hit bring freinds. It is a freighter not a fighter. There are game mechanics to prevent this, it is called bring a fleet, or risk your ship, it's that whole risk vs reward thing. Big smile

please show me how to beat an alpha strike. you'll be the most famous man in eve

Bring everyone in logi, have them rep you constantly as soon as you decloak. Do we really need to think for you as well?
Kheeria
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#464 - 2012-09-23 18:38:31 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
WTFAMILOOKINGAT wrote:
Your suggestion is one of the stupidest things I've seen on the forums. That's just what we need, restricting people from what systems they can jump into Roll

Here's a thought, perhaps don't fly through the system where people are getting ganked?


You can't have read many stupid things on the forums then, because it's an awesome suggestion. I've never played an MMO other than Eve which allows you to:

1. Attack member of your own side
2. Grief so blatantly without developer intervention

It needs to be fixed. Even if it only applied to High-Sec that would be better than nothing.

Seriously, WoW seems a much better game for you, I suggest you leave Eve and go play it instead. Either that or don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Auric Megastryke
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#465 - 2012-09-23 18:42:02 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Auric Megastryke wrote:
Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.

An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.

Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.

If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.

Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities...



Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock.


Would be easy to implement a "you have to be outside the docking perimeter of a station" rule for this take effect. Solves that pretty easily. Stations are supposedly "managed traffic" areas (you have to ask permission to dock and undock) so we can assume that the station tractor beam takes care of collisions there.
Even on a mass Jita undock without that fix, everybody is on exactly the same heading, and comes out with full shields - so the shield damage from being muscled aside by the freighter or battleship that just undocked wouldn't be that bad.
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#466 - 2012-09-23 18:48:51 UTC
Kheeria wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
WTFAMILOOKINGAT wrote:
Your suggestion is one of the stupidest things I've seen on the forums. That's just what we need, restricting people from what systems they can jump into Roll

Here's a thought, perhaps don't fly through the system where people are getting ganked?


You can't have read many stupid things on the forums then, because it's an awesome suggestion. I've never played an MMO other than Eve which allows you to:

1. Attack member of your own side
2. Grief so blatantly without developer intervention

It needs to be fixed. Even if it only applied to High-Sec that would be better than nothing.

Seriously, WoW seems a much better game for you, I suggest you leave Eve and go play it instead. Either that or don't fly what you can't afford to lose.


Dude this guy is trolling.
Nobody is that blinded by hate for Goons and 'griefers' that they would screw up the entire game just to spite them.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#467 - 2012-09-23 18:51:51 UTC
Auric Megastryke wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Auric Megastryke wrote:
Really what this points to is the need for CCP to have a look at the collision mechanics.

An obelisk (with a mass of 940M Kg - over a Million tons folks) moving at 75 or 80M/Sec should really just muscle aside a 1M Kg noobship. Collisions should cause shield/armor/hull damage in proportion to the mass, velocity, and angle of impact. You don't see ships (even small ones) getting their courses altered by missile impacts, exploding warheads, or by a mass of uranium thrown at them by a battleship sized gun. That is why we have SHIELDS.

Me hopping into a stiletto and doing a 2Km/Sec head-on ram with a ship 1000x my size ought to result in me looking like a bug smashed on the windshield of a truck, and him taking shield damage via some formula fixing my mass, speed, and angle of impact to a number of points of damage.

If we are going to call out RAMMING SPEED - their ought to be some consequences for it.

Of course this does open up some interesting possibilities...



Mmm, everyone dies on the Jita Undock.


Would be easy to implement a "you have to be outside the docking perimeter of a station" rule for this take effect. Solves that pretty easily. Stations are supposedly "managed traffic" areas (you have to ask permission to dock and undock) so we can assume that the station tractor beam takes care of collisions there.
Even on a mass Jita undock without that fix, everybody is on exactly the same heading, and comes out with full shields - so the shield damage from being muscled aside by the freighter or battleship that just undocked wouldn't be that bad.


Except dosen't everybody exit at full speed thus generating hugh impact since some people are faster to make the required input to turn theier ship for thier next warp?

And what about the troll, sitting in the biggest shield tank ever imagined with a group of reppers to fill him all the time, sitting right at the end of the Jita undock "safe zone" for **** and giggles? Yeah sounds like a good diea.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#468 - 2012-09-23 19:06:50 UTC
How did this thread reach 24 pages? Cry

.
Tarinara
Doomheim
#469 - 2012-09-23 19:14:31 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
How did this thread reach 24 pages? Cry

Goonswarm threads = best threads?...
Pipa Porto
#470 - 2012-09-23 22:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Auric Megastryke wrote:
Would be easy to implement a "you have to be outside the docking perimeter of a station" rule for this take effect. Solves that pretty easily. Stations are supposedly "managed traffic" areas (you have to ask permission to dock and undock) so we can assume that the station tractor beam takes care of collisions there.
Even on a mass Jita undock without that fix, everybody is on exactly the same heading, and comes out with full shields - so the shield damage from being muscled aside by the freighter or battleship that just undocked wouldn't be that bad.



Why? If bumping causes damage, why would bumping near a station not cause damage? Do stations have some sort of "Physics Disabled Here" field?

Sure it would. You're starting out Inside the Freighter.

Oh, and besides the hilarity on the Jita Undock, new type of Suicide Gank: The Bump Gank. No Sec Status hit, you get insurance from your loss, all good things.*

*Try to fix that by Concording Bumpers and we get back to hilarity on the Jita Undock, this time with more CONCORD.**

**Besides the obvious problems with deciding who bumped who.***

***Wheeee, Nested Footnotes****


****They're fun.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
SlayerOfArgus
Hermes Enterprises
#471 - 2012-09-24 03:09:27 UTC
While the bumping mechanic is flawed on some points, it's risk vs. reward people. Don't wanna get ganked? Don't undock.

And I don't think Goons are camping that much in all honesty. I sat in Uedama for almost an hour, watching so many freighters slow boat to and from gates.

Ways to avoid suicide ganking:
Don't undock
Have guardians + damnation to boost you and another to web you
Avoid that system
Scout the system
Don't fly with a lot of loot
Fly an Orca

So far you can do any of these options OR a combination of them and you are quite likely to avoid getting suicide ganked.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#472 - 2012-09-24 03:57:05 UTC
SlayerOfArgus wrote:
:words:


Or hey- contract your potential 'belongings' to be 'moved' to someone else with 'collateral'


For other helpful tips and or future gaming advice: Click Me!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#473 - 2012-09-24 04:03:25 UTC
SlayerOfArgus wrote:
Ways to avoid suicide ganking:
Don't undock

Highsec is supposed to be safe though, what happened?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#474 - 2012-09-24 06:01:39 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
SlayerOfArgus wrote:
Ways to avoid suicide ganking:
Don't undock

Highsec is supposed to be safe though, what happened?


No matter how safe tehy make hgh sec, the universe can always spawn bigger idiots to amke thing so stupid it's still profitable to gank them.

Make the EHP of freighter 10x as big and people will carry 10x time as much stuff. 200 bill kill-mail for a single freighter. It would go to that point at some time.
William Walker
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#475 - 2012-09-24 07:59:10 UTC
Gibbo3771 wrote:
William Walker wrote:
Also in Niarja. All is going according to plan.


FA scrub thinks hes part of goons divine plan, you are a pawn at most.


A pawn is part of a plan too, no?

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ﾉ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#476 - 2012-09-24 12:13:26 UTC
William Walker wrote:
Gibbo3771 wrote:
William Walker wrote:
Also in Niarja. All is going according to plan.

FA scrub thinks hes part of goons divine plan, you are a pawn at most.

A pawn is part of a plan too, no?

We're all pawns, and the ~puppetmasta~ is playing some other game that isn't EVE.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Dunbar Hulan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#477 - 2012-09-24 13:43:39 UTC
Wow, bad things can happen in Hi sec ? Never knew that, oh well, learn something new every day in EVE.

 ** Manchester United - Paul Scholes= Genius**
Robert De'Arneth
#478 - 2012-09-24 13:51:38 UTC
I saw someone in Jita offering contracts thru this gank area, I thought of this thread. Big smile

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#479 - 2012-09-24 13:58:00 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.
Which is a bannable offence if they're recycling them.
What? Deleting a character is bannable?


An excellent post by Senior GM Karidor explains such things in more detail, the forum post can be found here and says regarding character recycling: General guideline: don’t do it to avoid consequences within game mechanics.

If you have questions regarding game mechanics, please file a petition to our Game Masters for a clarification. Please also note that game rules can change over time if necessary.


Also please stay on topic and polite in this discussion (and elsewhere), thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
jimmyjam
Fire Mandrill
#480 - 2012-09-24 16:48:24 UTC
BillyBanter wrote:
I studied how this goon corp is ganking so many freighters in Uedema and surrounding systems. They wait for a target, once a freighter is in the system they will bump it to stop it from going anywhere. They will shoot it with an alt character to get the freighter into pvp, this stops the pilot from logging out. Due to how effective this is, there is no escape for the freighter pilot. Once you've jumped into that system in a freighter, you've given them a 100% guaranteed kill on you. Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.

I also watched their characters log in one by one and then suddenly all of them logged off on my contacts at precisely the same moment, looks like his computer crashed :D

Checked their character history, about half of them joined the corp on the same day and the other half were all new characters, created on the same day, earlier this year.

They also use log in traps, to trick people into thinking they're offline, the bumpers wait for a target and when one is found and held in place, the ganking characters are logged in to destroy it.

Perhaps everyone should start doing this, it's a really easy way to earn isk and get epic kills. Plenty of people with multiple accounts and the time to burn.

For a list of their ganking characters just look up Furious Father on a killboard and see his freighter kills and who was part of it.

Working as intended.