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Crime & Punishment

 
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The reality of the goon freighter ganking in Uedema and neighboring systems.

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Ginger Barbarella
#301 - 2012-09-19 17:03:59 UTC
On a completely separate side note, "bumping" is just stupid. I vote "bumping" be replaced with "collision". Never understood bouncing off other ships when you should see awesome explosions. Twisted

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Ensign X
#302 - 2012-09-19 17:06:02 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Your friend could pop the cheap bouncer.

I am kinda new to the game but I think there are gank link to increase your EHP. That would offset thier usual gank line by requiring additional tornadoes to shoot.

You can also try to play the web trick if the bouncer miss the freighter. Web the freighter to make his max speed much lower so he can nearly instant warp. This of course only works if the bouncer miss giving you time to at least align to your next warp target.

Scouting done by your friends could potentially reveal teh presence of someone at the gate, not moving at all for no reason. Yeah thats a scout to spot jumping freighter. Cost you some time before you jump but can make you save a ton.

With friends, you can also split the cargo in more ships thus reducing the value of each one of them rendering them "protected" vs a gank because they are not worth it.

Friend are OP. Nerf friends.


Not one bit of this is practical or effective in 99% of high sec freighter situations.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#303 - 2012-09-19 17:06:04 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PI Maker wrote:
Myxx wrote:
It is not a 100 percent assured kill. If you know what you're doing and are in your own corporation, there are methods of putting the freighter into warp before they are able to shoot it.

I put this together in like, a minute and I don't even fly freighters or rapiers.


[Rapier, Spiderman]

Overdrive Injector System II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


If you know how CONCORD and other game mechanics work... ganking isn't an issue. I get the impression that most of the people complaining aren't actually aware of how ganking and the game in general actually function.

It also helps if you're not AFK and afk warping around. If you're AFK, you get no points and have no ability to complain when you pop and could prevent it with due research and preperation.

you do realize they can just shoot the slinger first, right?


Why go through all the trouble killing the webber when you can mess with the alignement? There is no way to warp fast with a freighter unless he happens to be aligned. Freighter align slow. Slower than the time it takes another ship to ram him opposed to his target thus adding more and more time to the process.

You must not understand very well how slinging a freighter into warp actually works.

So, you start warp with the freighter, it, of course, must align. However, you go into warp at 75 percent of your total capable velocity. Webifiers modify this to be significantly lower than normal. This means the freighter will go into warp at a fraction of the overall speed it would typically require. After the warp has been initated, you apply the two webbers and if you did it correctly, it shouldn't take very long to sling the freighter into warp.

Will it be properly aligned? Newp. But will it be at the gate being ganked? Newp.


If your freighter gets bumped while aligning, it will not warp untill it can finish aligning. If you warp it often, you can completely hold him there indefinitely. Webbing him will only make him slower which has barely any incidence. Popping the webber also start the countdown for CONCORD response. The precious seconds wasted there are seconds you cannot use to apply dps on the freighter.

So again, why waste time popping a webber when you can completely prevent the warp?
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#304 - 2012-09-19 17:10:18 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Myxx wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PI Maker wrote:
Myxx wrote:
It is not a 100 percent assured kill. If you know what you're doing and are in your own corporation, there are methods of putting the freighter into warp before they are able to shoot it.

I put this together in like, a minute and I don't even fly freighters or rapiers.


[Rapier, Spiderman]

Overdrive Injector System II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


If you know how CONCORD and other game mechanics work... ganking isn't an issue. I get the impression that most of the people complaining aren't actually aware of how ganking and the game in general actually function.

It also helps if you're not AFK and afk warping around. If you're AFK, you get no points and have no ability to complain when you pop and could prevent it with due research and preperation.

you do realize they can just shoot the slinger first, right?


Why go through all the trouble killing the webber when you can mess with the alignement? There is no way to warp fast with a freighter unless he happens to be aligned. Freighter align slow. Slower than the time it takes another ship to ram him opposed to his target thus adding more and more time to the process.

You must not understand very well how slinging a freighter into warp actually works.

So, you start warp with the freighter, it, of course, must align. However, you go into warp at 75 percent of your total capable velocity. Webifiers modify this to be significantly lower than normal. This means the freighter will go into warp at a fraction of the overall speed it would typically require. After the warp has been initated, you apply the two webbers and if you did it correctly, it shouldn't take very long to sling the freighter into warp.

Will it be properly aligned? Newp. But will it be at the gate being ganked? Newp.


If your freighter gets bumped while aligning, it will not warp untill it can finish aligning. If you warp it often, you can completely hold him there indefinitely. Webbing him will only make him slower which has barely any incidence. Popping the webber also start the countdown for CONCORD response. The precious seconds wasted there are seconds you cannot use to apply dps on the freighter.

So again, why waste time popping a webber when you can completely prevent the warp?


You don't have to be aligned for the freighter to warp if you web it. It will warp as soon as it hits 75% (once u web) regardless of where the freighter is pointing. I'm not sure if this applies when being bumped though never tried.
Ensign X
#305 - 2012-09-19 17:11:25 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
That is a beautiful piece of gamesmanship right there. These guys are playing EVE at a high level. The have a deep understanding of aggression, tanking, and DPS mechanics, and sacrificed just under a billion in ships and fittings. They deserved all the rewards they reaped, and we should all aspire to play at that level in whatever our chosen style is.


L.M.F.A.O. Lol

You are so earnest. So naive. And so, so far up the asses of these "elite" pvpers.

Awesome.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#306 - 2012-09-19 17:13:44 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Myxx wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PI Maker wrote:
Myxx wrote:
It is not a 100 percent assured kill. If you know what you're doing and are in your own corporation, there are methods of putting the freighter into warp before they are able to shoot it.

I put this together in like, a minute and I don't even fly freighters or rapiers.


[Rapier, Spiderman]

Overdrive Injector System II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


If you know how CONCORD and other game mechanics work... ganking isn't an issue. I get the impression that most of the people complaining aren't actually aware of how ganking and the game in general actually function.

It also helps if you're not AFK and afk warping around. If you're AFK, you get no points and have no ability to complain when you pop and could prevent it with due research and preperation.

you do realize they can just shoot the slinger first, right?


Why go through all the trouble killing the webber when you can mess with the alignement? There is no way to warp fast with a freighter unless he happens to be aligned. Freighter align slow. Slower than the time it takes another ship to ram him opposed to his target thus adding more and more time to the process.

You must not understand very well how slinging a freighter into warp actually works.

So, you start warp with the freighter, it, of course, must align. However, you go into warp at 75 percent of your total capable velocity. Webifiers modify this to be significantly lower than normal. This means the freighter will go into warp at a fraction of the overall speed it would typically require. After the warp has been initated, you apply the two webbers and if you did it correctly, it shouldn't take very long to sling the freighter into warp.

Will it be properly aligned? Newp. But will it be at the gate being ganked? Newp.


If your freighter gets bumped while aligning, it will not warp untill it can finish aligning. If you warp it often, you can completely hold him there indefinitely. Webbing him will only make him slower which has barely any incidence. Popping the webber also start the countdown for CONCORD response. The precious seconds wasted there are seconds you cannot use to apply dps on the freighter.

So again, why waste time popping a webber when you can completely prevent the warp?


And we're back to the real problem of "bumping" = no risk. Requiring the freighter to incur the security hit and ship destruction involved with popping the bumper seems grotesquely unfair.

Can "no risk" bumping get replaced with SOMETHING that still allows hi-sec ganking without an obvious grief mechanic.

Put it this way, even if the freighters weren't ganked, seeing stabbers just preventing warps by constantly bumping doesn't make any sense.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#307 - 2012-09-19 17:14:24 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Your friend could pop the cheap bouncer.

I am kinda new to the game but I think there are gank link to increase your EHP. That would offset thier usual gank line by requiring additional tornadoes to shoot.

You can also try to play the web trick if the bouncer miss the freighter. Web the freighter to make his max speed much lower so he can nearly instant warp. This of course only works if the bouncer miss giving you time to at least align to your next warp target.

Scouting done by your friends could potentially reveal teh presence of someone at the gate, not moving at all for no reason. Yeah thats a scout to spot jumping freighter. Cost you some time before you jump but can make you save a ton.

With friends, you can also split the cargo in more ships thus reducing the value of each one of them rendering them "protected" vs a gank because they are not worth it.

Friend are OP. Nerf friends.


Not one bit of this is practical or effective in 99% of high sec freighter situations.

You should be ashamed of yourself.


Why are they useless? If the bumper is gone, either they need another ship to bump you or you will warp. They could disrupt your warp but it initiate the CONCORD timer. Every second fo dps is precious to them.

If you increase your EHP, it raise the DPS requirement to pop you. You only have to live till CONCORD saves you.

Web trick will work if they can't prevent you from aligning. It will speed up your warping but you need to be sure you don't get bumped of course else it's a waste.

Looking at whats on grid before jumping will prevent you from jumping. Check the place for a little bit fo time. If a ship is standing at the gate doing nothing at all, chance are it's a spotting scout. As soon as your freighter jumps, it will get reported. If you see nothing, you only ahve to be afraid of scans.

Splitting the cargo is the perfect solution of course. If you do nto carry enough worth in the hold, they will not pop you.

Again, why are these tricks useless?
Myxx
The Scope
#308 - 2012-09-19 17:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Myxx wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PI Maker wrote:
Myxx wrote:
It is not a 100 percent assured kill. If you know what you're doing and are in your own corporation, there are methods of putting the freighter into warp before they are able to shoot it.

I put this together in like, a minute and I don't even fly freighters or rapiers.


[Rapier, Spiderman]

Overdrive Injector System II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


If you know how CONCORD and other game mechanics work... ganking isn't an issue. I get the impression that most of the people complaining aren't actually aware of how ganking and the game in general actually function.

It also helps if you're not AFK and afk warping around. If you're AFK, you get no points and have no ability to complain when you pop and could prevent it with due research and preperation.

you do realize they can just shoot the slinger first, right?


Why go through all the trouble killing the webber when you can mess with the alignement? There is no way to warp fast with a freighter unless he happens to be aligned. Freighter align slow. Slower than the time it takes another ship to ram him opposed to his target thus adding more and more time to the process.

You must not understand very well how slinging a freighter into warp actually works.

So, you start warp with the freighter, it, of course, must align. However, you go into warp at 75 percent of your total capable velocity. Webifiers modify this to be significantly lower than normal. This means the freighter will go into warp at a fraction of the overall speed it would typically require. After the warp has been initated, you apply the two webbers and if you did it correctly, it shouldn't take very long to sling the freighter into warp.

Will it be properly aligned? Newp. But will it be at the gate being ganked? Newp.


If your freighter gets bumped while aligning, it will not warp untill it can finish aligning. If you warp it often, you can completely hold him there indefinitely. Webbing him will only make him slower which has barely any incidence. Popping the webber also start the countdown for CONCORD response. The precious seconds wasted there are seconds you cannot use to apply dps on the freighter.

So again, why waste time popping a webber when you can completely prevent the warp?

This is implying that from a gankers perspective, you should shoot anything besides the freighter. If I were to be a ganker, Its an extremely dumb idea to do anything except that.

With a webber though, if you're good, you can put the freighter into warp INSTANTLY without worrying about aligning. This nullifies, in theory, the entire concern about gankers.

It just requires you to be At The Keyboard and have half a braincell. This is something that the majority of the 'carebear' population lacks the patience to do. I'm pretty sure that what matters is that precious 75 percent overall speed, and not alignment.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#309 - 2012-09-19 17:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
Myxx wrote:


This is implying that from a gankers perspective, you should shoot anything besides the freighter. If I were to be a ganker, Its an extremely dumb idea to do anything except that.

With a webber though, if you're good, you can put the freighter into warp INSTANTLY without worrying about aligning. This nullifies, in theory, the entire concern about gankers.

It just requires you to be At The Keyboard and have half a braincell. This is something that the majority of the 'carebear' population lacks the patience to do. I'm pretty sure that what matters is that precious 75 percent overall speed, and not alignment.




This makes webbing even better than I though as a defense then...
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#310 - 2012-09-19 17:34:53 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Myxx wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PI Maker wrote:


blah, blah, interesting stuff about webbers



Let's be fair here... The webbers thing is clearly NOT a well documented game mechanic. There's some dispute here in this very thread over whether or not it will help the aligning (and therefore the bumping) issue. It requires a second account (or a friend). And, topping it all off, it still doesn't fully protect you (apparently).

Not to sound like a broken record, but how is the problem NOT unrestricted bumping?

Here's a suggestion. Hi-sec interdiction bubbles. They create aggro and are nearly instantly popped by concord after someone is caught.

So to gank a freighter, you'd have to have a scout on the gate, see him warp, then instruct your dictor to trigger. Then you have ~20 seconds (in 0.5) before concord responds and pops the dictor (thereby popping the bubble) and ~20 seconds after that before the freighter can warp.

So if you can DPS down a freighter in ~40 seconds, you can get your gank (which is doable, IIRC).
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#311 - 2012-09-19 17:34:55 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
That is a beautiful piece of gamesmanship right there. These guys are playing EVE at a high level. The have a deep understanding of aggression, tanking, and DPS mechanics, and sacrificed just under a billion in ships and fittings. They deserved all the rewards they reaped, and we should all aspire to play at that level in whatever our chosen style is.


L.M.F.A.O. Lol

You are so earnest. So naive. And so, so far up the asses of these "elite" pvpers.

Awesome.



And they also blew up hundreds of billions of ISK worth of stuff in seconds.
What did you do today? Hunt Rifter flying noobs in lowsec?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#312 - 2012-09-19 17:38:39 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:


Let's be fair here... The webbers thing is clearly NOT a well documented game mechanic. There's some dispute here in this very thread over whether or not it will help the aligning (and therefore the bumping) issue. It requires a second account (or a friend). And, topping it all off, it still doesn't fully protect you (apparently).

Not to sound like a broken record, but how is the problem NOT unrestricted bumping?

Here's a suggestion. Hi-sec interdiction bubbles. They create aggro and are nearly instantly popped by concord after someone is caught.

So to gank a freighter, you'd have to have a scout on the gate, see him warp, then instruct your dictor to trigger. Then you have ~20 seconds (in 0.5) before concord responds and pops the dictor (thereby popping the bubble) and ~20 seconds after that before the freighter can warp.

So if you can DPS down a freighter in ~40 seconds, you can get your gank (which is doable, IIRC).


Or the freighter could follow the 2 basic rules a newbie was able to post here and be sure to enver be ganked for profit. This says nothing of ganking for tears but if money is no object, there is no defense beside not undocking.

The rules are really easy.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#313 - 2012-09-19 17:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Seminole Sun wrote:


Let's be fair here... The webbers thing is clearly NOT a well documented game mechanic. There's some dispute here in this very thread over whether or not it will help the aligning (and therefore the bumping) issue. It requires a second account (or a friend). And, topping it all off, it still doesn't fully protect you (apparently).

Not to sound like a broken record, but how is the problem NOT unrestricted bumping?

Here's a suggestion. Hi-sec interdiction bubbles. They create aggro and are nearly instantly popped by concord after someone is caught.

So to gank a freighter, you'd have to have a scout on the gate, see him warp, then instruct your dictor to trigger. Then you have ~20 seconds (in 0.5) before concord responds and pops the dictor (thereby popping the bubble) and ~20 seconds after that before the freighter can warp.

So if you can DPS down a freighter in ~40 seconds, you can get your gank (which is doable, IIRC).


To warp, your ship needs to be:
1.) Moving at 75% of it's maximum velocity
2.) Moving (aligned) towards your destination within the allowable angular deviation.

When you spawn in a system, your velocity is zero. Since your ship is a sphere, you have no alignment when sitting still. This means, when you accelerate to warp, you will automatically be aligned correctly. You only need to reach 75% of your maximum velocity to enter warp.

Webbing a ship, instantly reduces it's MAXIMUM velocity, but it does not instantly reduce its ACTUAL velocity. So, web a freighter with a 100 m/s max velocity with three 60% webs, and it's new max velocity instantly becomes 13 m/s. 75% of this is 10 m/s. As long as you don't web the freighter BEFORE it reaches 10 m/s, it will INSTANTLY warp when you web it.

Bumping can prevent this, as long as the bumping ship can ram the freighter before it reaches 10 m/s and before it gets webbed.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#314 - 2012-09-19 17:47:45 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:


Let's be fair here... The webbers thing is clearly NOT a well documented game mechanic. There's some dispute here in this very thread over whether or not it will help the aligning (and therefore the bumping) issue. It requires a second account (or a friend). And, topping it all off, it still doesn't fully protect you (apparently).

Not to sound like a broken record, but how is the problem NOT unrestricted bumping?

Here's a suggestion. Hi-sec interdiction bubbles. They create aggro and are nearly instantly popped by concord after someone is caught.

So to gank a freighter, you'd have to have a scout on the gate, see him warp, then instruct your dictor to trigger. Then you have ~20 seconds (in 0.5) before concord responds and pops the dictor (thereby popping the bubble) and ~20 seconds after that before the freighter can warp.

So if you can DPS down a freighter in ~40 seconds, you can get your gank (which is doable, IIRC).


Or the freighter could follow the 2 basic rules a newbie was able to post here and be sure to enver be ganked for profit. This says nothing of ganking for tears but if money is no object, there is no defense beside not undocking.

The rules are really easy.


I agree... if you're carrying 10 bil in implants and you don't have an escort, you probably should be shot down. But I also believe that there needs to be SOME way to prevent ganks (even full grief ganks). Maybe that's having a t3 boosting alt following me to screw the math up. Maybe that's a logi constantly repping me. The problem with the bumping is that there's no way to stop the bumping (and, as I've said, it's almost by definition a griefing mechanic).
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#315 - 2012-09-19 17:51:51 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:





When you spawn in a system, your velocity is zero. Since your ship is a sphere, you have no alignment when sitting still. This means, when you accelerate to warp, you will automatically be aligned correctly. You only need to reach 75% of your maximum velocity to enter warp.



My ship is a sphere with no alignment sitting still? Are you trying to say that the game calculates my alignment based not on the ship's geometry but the direction of movement? That makes some sense (it certainly explains the alt+tab behavior of my ship spinning in space, mid-warp sometimes). Again, these are all very poorly documented mechanics and rather esoteric work arounds... Asking people to understand them is, I think, a tad silly.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#316 - 2012-09-19 18:19:08 UTC
No no no no and NO!!

Please keep hauling dozens billions of isk in freighters without escort, dozens billions of isk in T1 untanked haulers afk auto piloting and above all, please continue to haul billions of isk in form of plex with your T1 crappy frig.

You can't educate idiots, but they can provide you some entertainment.

brb
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#317 - 2012-09-19 18:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Seminole Sun wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:





When you spawn in a system, your velocity is zero. Since your ship is a sphere, you have no alignment when sitting still. This means, when you accelerate to warp, you will automatically be aligned correctly. You only need to reach 75% of your maximum velocity to enter warp.



My ship is a sphere with no alignment sitting still? Are you trying to say that the game calculates my alignment based not on the ship's geometry but the direction of movement? That makes some sense (it certainly explains the alt+tab behavior of my ship spinning in space, mid-warp sometimes). Again, these are all very poorly documented mechanics and rather esoteric work arounds... Asking people to understand them is, I think, a tad silly.


Yes, the ship calculates your alignment based on its direction of movement. The orientation of your ships graphics model is completely irrelevant to your alignment.

*edit* The game attempts to orient your ships graphics model to match the alignment of your ship, but does so at a reduced rate to make the graphics appear fluid. This is why you often find large ships warping sideways and orienting in warp, especially when they get webbed to warp.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#318 - 2012-09-19 18:25:49 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:

I agree... if you're carrying 10 bil in implants and you don't have an escort, you probably should be shot down. But I also believe that there needs to be SOME way to prevent ganks (even full grief ganks). Maybe that's having a t3 boosting alt following me to screw the math up. Maybe that's a logi constantly repping me. The problem with the bumping is that there's no way to stop the bumping (and, as I've said, it's almost by definition a griefing mechanic).


You can't prevent full grief gank. No matter how much tank you fit on a ship, if something can lock on it, it's over. It can be destroyed. You can bring hunderd of fast locking ship if you don't care about the cost. Only an instant warp would matter at that point and this would be a broken mecanic. You can prevent all ganks for profit. They're are many way. Full grief is impossible to prevent.
flakeys
Doomheim
#319 - 2012-09-19 18:58:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
flakeys wrote:
I'm all for ganking if people like doing it , it is part of eve.The only thing wich allways has concerned me is the throw away negative sec chars.That goes for the freighter ganking now , the hulkageddon thingy and all other previous forms that we have seen .


Easy to fix though , characters with a -sec stat can not be removed from your account until they are positive again.Should be able to implement such a thing in a few days is my guess IF CCP wanted to since they claim to be against recycle alts.


We have never used disposable alts, we simply put them on the sec safari.



As said , but just to be clear , i'm all good with ganking it's a part of eve so if it's done with a char wich goes through the sec grind later on then by all means enjoy your freighterkills Blink.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#320 - 2012-09-19 19:05:06 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:

I agree... if you're carrying 10 bil in implants and you don't have an escort, you probably should be shot down. But I also believe that there needs to be SOME way to prevent ganks (even full grief ganks). Maybe that's having a t3 boosting alt following me to screw the math up. Maybe that's a logi constantly repping me. The problem with the bumping is that there's no way to stop the bumping (and, as I've said, it's almost by definition a griefing mechanic).


You can't prevent full grief gank. No matter how much tank you fit on a ship, if something can lock on it, it's over. It can be destroyed. You can bring hunderd of fast locking ship if you don't care about the cost. Only an instant warp would matter at that point and this would be a broken mecanic. You can prevent all ganks for profit. They're are many way. Full grief is impossible to prevent.


What is your point?

If you are getting grief ganked (i.e. where people are just blowing up your ship even knowing they will not make any isk doing so), then you did something to deserve it. No corp/alliance can keep grief-ganking indefinitely, as you can purposely fly hard-to-destroy ships to maximize there losses.

If you are getting ganked for profit, its because you created the situation in which you COULD be ganked for profit... .so again, you reap what you sow.