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Crime & Punishment

 
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The reality of the goon freighter ganking in Uedema and neighboring systems.

First post
Author
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#281 - 2012-09-19 13:50:53 UTC
Germaldi's Mum wrote:
PeHD0M wrote:
Bumping is a broken mechanic, ofc it should be fixed. Apart from that, bumping the target for a long period of time without shooting it should be petitionable, it is an obvious griefing.


in X3 Terran Conflict if you bump a big ship with a small ship u will die or take heavy damage... and all u do to the big ship is damage the big ship's shields.

in eve bumping should be made similar.


And what if you throw more ship at it? 1 EHP = 1 DMG?

Can you use a super shield tanked ship to camp Jita undock and have ship blowup on your shield? Might be worth checking how much shield HP you can get on a cheap ship.
Lex Alandar
Q Division Five
#282 - 2012-09-19 14:13:35 UTC
15 pages is alot so I said fuckthat

on the off-chance this hasn't been mentioned...

webs?


Seriously, if you have billions in cargo but can't be bothered to put a fresh alt in a triple-web ship to follow you around empire, it's your own damn fault.


1. hours (not even days of training time)
2. most empire warps are long enough for the webber to deaggro on the slow freighter warp
3. all of a sudden you're a whole lot harder to catch


I learned about the importance of webbing freighters in 2007 when I had barely been playing the game for a couple months. WTF do so many people who play this game just whine on forums instead of learning the game mechanics??? I've seen that ever since I started playing as well.
PI Maker
Doomheim
#283 - 2012-09-19 14:13:53 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.


Which is a bannable offence if they're recycling them.


you cant biomass a character with negative sec status. they are either using trial accounts and just letting the accounts lapse or turning the alts into cyno alts once they are done.

you can biomass a character with neg status. i have done it. however, the character had one sec status hit and that was from shooting a customs office. maybe its tied to player agression or actual player kills.
PI Maker
Doomheim
#284 - 2012-09-19 14:15:52 UTC
Myxx wrote:
It is not a 100 percent assured kill. If you know what you're doing and are in your own corporation, there are methods of putting the freighter into warp before they are able to shoot it.

I put this together in like, a minute and I don't even fly freighters or rapiers.


[Rapier, Spiderman]

Overdrive Injector System II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


If you know how CONCORD and other game mechanics work... ganking isn't an issue. I get the impression that most of the people complaining aren't actually aware of how ganking and the game in general actually function.

It also helps if you're not AFK and afk warping around. If you're AFK, you get no points and have no ability to complain when you pop and could prevent it with due research and preperation.

you do realize they can just shoot the slinger first, right?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#285 - 2012-09-19 14:22:40 UTC
PI Maker wrote:
Myxx wrote:
It is not a 100 percent assured kill. If you know what you're doing and are in your own corporation, there are methods of putting the freighter into warp before they are able to shoot it.

I put this together in like, a minute and I don't even fly freighters or rapiers.


[Rapier, Spiderman]

Overdrive Injector System II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


If you know how CONCORD and other game mechanics work... ganking isn't an issue. I get the impression that most of the people complaining aren't actually aware of how ganking and the game in general actually function.

It also helps if you're not AFK and afk warping around. If you're AFK, you get no points and have no ability to complain when you pop and could prevent it with due research and preperation.

you do realize they can just shoot the slinger first, right?


Why go through all the trouble killing the webber when you can mess with the alignement? There is no way to warp fast with a freighter unless he happens to be aligned. Freighter align slow. Slower than the time it takes another ship to ram him opposed to his target thus adding more and more time to the process.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#286 - 2012-09-19 14:38:39 UTC
PI Maker wrote:

you do realize they can just shoot the slinger first, right?


You're an idiot. The major limitation to DPS output in a gank is time before CONCORD responds. Why would a gank squad ruin a perfectly clear gate to kill a webber? You now have to hold the freighter in position, get an equal number of pilots as what it took to kill the webber to pull CONCORD simultaneously, and wait 15 minutes for everyone's GCC to cool off or more pilots to show up since you probably lost some DPS you needed for the freighter.

As goons we have a dedicated jabber room, fleet, and mumble channel for this with people on standby and we still have timing problems or manpower problems at times. Most other pirates aren't coordianted enough to pull this off, they're looking for targets of opportunity and you've seriously decreased the opportunity.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#287 - 2012-09-19 14:45:33 UTC
Gun Gal wrote:
Amazing
Justifying exploitable offenses, no risk vs reward, recyclable characters

Eve has come a long way, but its still going down the toilet due to you *******.


Point out the exploit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#288 - 2012-09-19 14:46:53 UTC
flakeys wrote:
I'm all for ganking if people like doing it , it is part of eve.The only thing wich allways has concerned me is the throw away negative sec chars.That goes for the freighter ganking now , the hulkageddon thingy and all other previous forms that we have seen .


Easy to fix though , characters with a -sec stat can not be removed from your account until they are positive again.Should be able to implement such a thing in a few days is my guess IF CCP wanted to since they claim to be against recycle alts.


We have never used disposable alts, we simply put them on the sec safari.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#289 - 2012-09-19 14:46:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gun Gal wrote:
Amazing
Justifying exploitable offenses, no risk vs reward, recyclable characters

Eve has come a long way, but its still going down the toilet due to you *******.


Point out the exploit.


The no risk part too please.
Darth Bri
Maniaci Dello Spazio
#290 - 2012-09-19 15:05:56 UTC
Robert De'Arneth wrote:
You sure learned a lot for the one day you been playing EVE!! Or, you are posting on a one day alt, that is my guess. Now my question is, why are you coward and have a yellow streak 5 miles long down your back? If you are going to post about a corp, grow a pair and post on your main.



This guy = Furious Father, obviously!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2012-09-19 15:17:46 UTC
Germaldi's Mum wrote:
PeHD0M wrote:
Bumping is a broken mechanic, ofc it should be fixed. Apart from that, bumping the target for a long period of time without shooting it should be petitionable, it is an obvious griefing.


in X3 Terran Conflict if you bump a big ship with a small ship u will die or take heavy damage... and all u do to the big ship is damage the big ship's shields.

in eve bumping should be made similar.

brb warping my freighter full of armor plates into jita 4-4 undock
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#292 - 2012-09-19 15:20:12 UTC
It's obviously an exploit, goons are doing it Roll

The fact that 90% of the kills are because some numbnuts decided to pack their freighter with billions of isk is nothing to do with it

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Robert De'Arneth
#293 - 2012-09-19 15:22:10 UTC
Darth Bri wrote:
Robert De'Arneth wrote:
You sure learned a lot for the one day you been playing EVE!! Or, you are posting on a one day alt, that is my guess. Now my question is, why are you coward and have a yellow streak 5 miles long down your back? If you are going to post about a corp, grow a pair and post on your main.



This guy = Furious Father, obviously!



Would you, could you, be so kind as to explain what in hades that is supposed to mean!! Big smile

Cannot beleive this thread is still kicking!!

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 

Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#294 - 2012-09-19 15:24:13 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Germaldi's Mum wrote:
PeHD0M wrote:
Bumping is a broken mechanic, ofc it should be fixed. Apart from that, bumping the target for a long period of time without shooting it should be petitionable, it is an obvious griefing.


in X3 Terran Conflict if you bump a big ship with a small ship u will die or take heavy damage... and all u do to the big ship is damage the big ship's shields.

in eve bumping should be made similar.

brb warping my freighter full of armor plates into jita 4-4 undock

I'm thinking super passive tanked rattlesnake.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#295 - 2012-09-19 15:33:02 UTC
15 pages for what is essentially a "bawww pvp shouldnt be allowed in hisec" thread

oh come on, I thought we were past this
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#296 - 2012-09-19 15:35:55 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
15 pages for what is essentially a "bawww pvp shouldnt be allowed in hisec" thread

oh come on, I thought we were past this


Most of us are, we just have to keep correcting the ones that think Concord should be a pre-emptive strike force so that they can safely AFK.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#297 - 2012-09-19 15:49:54 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Germaldi's Mum wrote:
PeHD0M wrote:
Bumping is a broken mechanic, ofc it should be fixed. Apart from that, bumping the target for a long period of time without shooting it should be petitionable, it is an obvious griefing.


in X3 Terran Conflict if you bump a big ship with a small ship u will die or take heavy damage... and all u do to the big ship is damage the big ship's shields.

in eve bumping should be made similar.

brb warping my freighter full of armor plates into jita 4-4 undock

I'm thinking super passive tanked rattlesnake.


Need ultra high regen to blow up more ship. Cap stable shield booster + afk cap stable shield rep. I don't know if this is possible but if it is, you can guess how it would end.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#298 - 2012-09-19 16:36:21 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Jesus Christ, You pubbies ***** about any thing that requires you to actually play the game. I outlined clearly in the last thread about this topic five strategies to avoid pirates. It's easy if you take a few moments to understand the mechanics of high sec and the razor thin margin of time, dps/alpha, and risk pirates are working on.

My experience as a high sec pirate, industrialist, and small gang PVPer leads me to believe that the EHP of freighters is perfectly in line with the risk-reward ratio necessary to foster a strong economy. Freighter ganking doesn't just benefit the pirates with an income source. It stimulates production to meet their new purchasing power, while increasing profits due to increased scarcity.

The problem with decreased risk is a vibrant economy requires large amounts of ISK moving freely among a large number of people. The sterile future your changes would lead to is a future of stagnant meaningless wealth automated in production and transfer; sitting idly in wallets and hangars unspent, under valued, and ultimately dead.



Zorg from Fifth Element speaks....

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#299 - 2012-09-19 16:46:45 UTC
I have no problem with Hi-sec being risky. I would add, however, that I fail to see how bumping being a "neutral" act is anything other than an oversite and VERY close to the line of an exploit. I can dramatically affect someone' s game play without any ability for them to counter (in theory, they could war-dec and then shoot me but that takes 24 hours and is pretty easy for a one man corp to dodge... plus it costs me money to do it)...

So my only comment would be, eliminate bumping and/or make repeated bumping trigger a concord response (perhaps not a fatal concord response, however... maybe concord just webs you for 5 minutes??)
Myxx
The Scope
#300 - 2012-09-19 16:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PI Maker wrote:
Myxx wrote:
It is not a 100 percent assured kill. If you know what you're doing and are in your own corporation, there are methods of putting the freighter into warp before they are able to shoot it.

I put this together in like, a minute and I don't even fly freighters or rapiers.


[Rapier, Spiderman]

Overdrive Injector System II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


If you know how CONCORD and other game mechanics work... ganking isn't an issue. I get the impression that most of the people complaining aren't actually aware of how ganking and the game in general actually function.

It also helps if you're not AFK and afk warping around. If you're AFK, you get no points and have no ability to complain when you pop and could prevent it with due research and preperation.

you do realize they can just shoot the slinger first, right?


Why go through all the trouble killing the webber when you can mess with the alignement? There is no way to warp fast with a freighter unless he happens to be aligned. Freighter align slow. Slower than the time it takes another ship to ram him opposed to his target thus adding more and more time to the process.

You must not understand very well how slinging a freighter into warp actually works.

So, you start warp with the freighter, it, of course, must align. However, you go into warp at 75 percent of your total capable velocity. Webifiers modify this to be significantly lower than normal. This means the freighter will go into warp at a fraction of the overall speed it would typically require. After the warp has been initated, you apply the two webbers and if you did it correctly, it shouldn't take very long to sling the freighter into warp.

Will it be properly aligned? Newp. But will it be at the gate being ganked? Newp.