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Crime & Punishment

 
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The reality of the goon freighter ganking in Uedema and neighboring systems.

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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2012-09-18 22:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Skippermonkey wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.


Which is a bannable offence if they're recycling them.


I laugh whenever i read this, sec status literally means nothing to a suicide ganker who is doing it right

Actually as most rely on alts, they don't *actually* do it right, *because* they rely on alts.


You would still need a basic level of security to not get blown up as soon as you hit high sec no? I know it's a really low requirement but still. They can't only blow up ship till the cows come home. They will have to grind it a bit abck once they made enough aggression in high sec...

No.
The faction police spawns after an amount of seconds related to the secstatus of the system.
after a few more seconds, the frigate starts webbing, then scramming.
The bigger ships start to point.

You have a high chance of being jammed.
This ruined my day rather often. ^_^

I could tell you more, but i believe you're not that much interested. :)

(edit: CONCORD only cares about GCC. Your secstatus is less of a problem,)
(as long as you can avoid the faction police. take your ganking alt into a 0.5 and fit)
(a vigil for speed. 5-6kmsec. it's fun getting shot at by random people. :D)
The Groundskeeper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#202 - 2012-09-18 22:37:35 UTC
If you have one, day one alt then there is an absolutely 100% way to make sure that you don't die to anything less than 30-odd gankers. And even that won't be worthwhile unless you are hauling ******** amounts of loot.

What I like about the complaining is that it rebounds so hilariously. The highsec miners who were making a fortune amidst the ganks - but who complained so petulantly - are now making peanuts thanks to the influx of afk botswarms.
PI Maker
Doomheim
#203 - 2012-09-18 22:51:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
PI Maker wrote:
i was trying to help keep your secret with an indirect question P


We spent 6 months telling miners exactly how to avoid being ganked, provided them with fits, tactics and even how to track us in local. Hundreds died.

These people seem to be just as daft.

so what's the point of the bumping? it takes way more than 20 secs for a freighter to get to the gate and it sounds like you either pre-scan them or are operating on intel gathered elsewhere, so no wasted scan time. i can see bumping at the logoff point if the person actually got away, you waited for them to return and prevented the warp back. maybe this is part of the logoff trap version?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#204 - 2012-09-18 23:03:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
The problem here is it's way too easy, and too cheap, to get hugely profitable kills.

It's risk vs reward, the risk isn't much, it's known to and accepted by the ganker long before weapon is fired. A simple solution would be to increase freighter HP by 300%. 100k EHP isn't very much for what is supposed to be EVE's largest freight vessel.

The pilot growing a fully functional brain is a nice enough buff for freighters.

+1

But what freighter pilot with a brain would still be a freighter pilot.

Short history lesson.

In WW2 freighters were sunk in the thousands. Then some bright spark said "let's use escorts". When the escorts got the technique right, less freighters sunk.

After a while the sinkers gave up because their losses were too high.

Aren't we supposed to learn from history?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Elliot Plaude
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2012-09-18 23:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Elliot Plaude
Gogela wrote:
Sure people come on the forums and talk a lot of smack, and that may make it look like a common thing... but if HS ganking of freighters were so common, a successful gank wouldn't be newsworthy and players would change their behavior. As it is, suicide ganking is a relatively rare thing.


http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2769

40 freighters. 1 system. 1 month. Not that rare really.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#206 - 2012-09-18 23:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Elliot Plaude wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2769

40 freighters. 1 system. 1 month. Not that rare really.
A bit over one a day for one of the most travelled systems in EVE, on top of one of main material pipes — a system that is most likely in the top 3 for freighter traffic in the entire game (and which is an excellent kill spot since it's a 0.5-sec bottleneck that everyone and their dog have to go through)…

For a most-likely scenario, that's a pitiful yield so no, the only conclusion is that they're pretty darn rare indeed. Oh, and that's when there's a freighter hunt on. Let's see what happens if we look at a full month without that anomaly.

Let's instead look at some representative systems:

Uedama, last month — 26 freighters + 0 JFs killed.
Niarja, last month — 26 freighters + 2 JFs killed.
Perimeter, last month — 2 freighters + 0 JFs killed.
Jita, last month — 3 freighters + 1 JF killed.

…as expected, rarer still. But wait, wasn't that round about the time they got started? What happens if we go further back in time?

Uedama in July — 0 freighters + 0 JFs killed.
Niarja in July — 3 freighters + 0 JFs killed.
Perimeter in July — 0 freighters + 0 JFs killed.
Jita in July — 0 freighters + 1 JF killed.

…oh my… And earlier?

Uedama in June — 3 freighters + 1 JFs killed.
Niarja in June — 3 freighters + 0 JFs killed.
Perimeter in June — 1 freighter + 0 JFs killed.
Jita in June — 1 freighter + 0 JFs killed.

Yes. Freighters are indeed being hunted to extinction… Lol
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#207 - 2012-09-18 23:44:54 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
The problem here is it's way too easy, and too cheap, to get hugely profitable kills.

It's risk vs reward, the risk isn't much, it's known to and accepted by the ganker long before weapon is fired. A simple solution would be to increase freighter HP by 300%. 100k EHP isn't very much for what is supposed to be EVE's largest freight vessel.

The pilot growing a fully functional brain is a nice enough buff for freighters.

+1

But what freighter pilot with a brain would still be a freighter pilot.

Short history lesson.

In WW2 freighters were sunk in the thousands. Then some bright spark said "let's use escorts". When the escorts got the technique right, less freighters sunk.

After a while the sinkers gave up because their losses were too high.

Aren't we supposed to learn from history?



One /small/ difference. Escorts could shoot first without being exploded. Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#208 - 2012-09-18 23:49:54 UTC
Hello there, intellectually challenged freighter pilots.

Look the the list of freighters killed in uedama posted above. Do you notice any freighters from Push Industries or Red Frog. No? Look into what they do. Hint: they limit their cargo value. Copy them or use them.

Also, stop being daft.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#209 - 2012-09-18 23:58:04 UTC
[tinfoil] Red Frog & PushX have hired people to eliminate the competition & increase their market share[/tinfoil]

If this was true then it'd be a fine example of the emergent game play that Eve is so famous for, unfortunately it's probably not Pirate

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#210 - 2012-09-19 00:06:47 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:



Hint: they will just use them for cargo expanders and turn their freighters into 50K EHP punching bags.



Some will. Some won't. But the important point is, they will have a choice.

And what do we like about the sandbox, class?

CHOICE!

So someone explain how giving players options in a sandbox game is bad. I'd love to hear all about it.

Mr Epeen Cool
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#211 - 2012-09-19 00:08:43 UTC
Aww but they already have a choice. Go 34 extra jumps to avoid 1 system or don't fly the route at all. Plenty of choice in my opinion...
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#212 - 2012-09-19 00:09:24 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
The problem here is it's way too easy, and too cheap, to get hugely profitable kills.

It's risk vs reward, the risk isn't much, it's known to and accepted by the ganker long before weapon is fired. A simple solution would be to increase freighter HP by 300%. 100k EHP isn't very much for what is supposed to be EVE's largest freight vessel.

The pilot growing a fully functional brain is a nice enough buff for freighters.

+1

But what freighter pilot with a brain would still be a freighter pilot.

Short history lesson.

In WW2 freighters were sunk in the thousands. Then some bright spark said "let's use escorts". When the escorts got the technique right, less freighters sunk.

After a while the sinkers gave up because their losses were too high.

Aren't we supposed to learn from history?



One /small/ difference. Escorts could shoot first without being exploded. Blink

There's no need. Once the sparks fly an escort group can fire at will. Until ~they~ shoot you wouldn't know who to shoot anyway so moot point.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#213 - 2012-09-19 00:10:21 UTC
FluffyDice wrote:
Aww but they already have a choice. Go 34 extra jumps to avoid 1 system or don't fly the route at all. Plenty of choice in my opinion...


Or they could, you know, not stuff 40+ billion isk in their hold.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#214 - 2012-09-19 00:11:14 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
So someone explain how giving players options in a sandbox game is bad. I'd love to hear all about it.
For one, they would have to nerf the hell out of freighters if they were to give them slots.

As it is, freighters simply come pre-loaded with the tank and cargo capacity they're meant to handle, and there's no reason to change that.
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#215 - 2012-09-19 00:15:46 UTC
They could also carry apparently nothing and get shot anyway. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14618880

fake edit: I really hope that was someone transporting one of those 8b isk collateral courier jobs.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#216 - 2012-09-19 00:18:38 UTC
FluffyDice wrote:
They could also carry apparently nothing and get shot anyway. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14618880

fake edit: I really hope that was someone transporting one of those 8b isk collateral courier jobs.


One of them turned out to be 200 mil of tritStraight
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#217 - 2012-09-19 00:21:25 UTC
Why doesn't the killmail show the contents by the way? I ganked a hauler the other day and the mail for that showed the contents of the wrapping. Are these ones double wrapped or something?
Heet Crusher
Drunk Chaos
#218 - 2012-09-19 00:32:20 UTC
First off don't believe a word a cfc or hbc ever says. They are scammers, liars, and all around all star idiots. They are what is wrong with EVE. Now I know how i would handle this. Go gank them. If they are in tier 3 bc you can instant pop them if you have the skills. If not hire some mercs to clear the system. And you can sit back and watch the fireworks if you prefer.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#219 - 2012-09-19 00:37:16 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
Once the sec status of the alt character is too low, they replace it with a new one.


Which is a bannable offence if they're recycling them.


The kind of character that can be recycled can't really be of much use in a freighter gank.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#220 - 2012-09-19 00:51:13 UTC
PI Maker wrote:
Robert De'Arneth wrote:
BillyBanter wrote:
The problem here is it's way too easy, and too cheap, to get hugely profitable kills.

It's risk vs reward, the risk isn't much, it's known to and accepted by the ganker long before weapon is fired. A simple solution would be to increase freighter HP by 300%. 100k EHP isn't very much for what is supposed to be EVE's largest freight vessel.



No the simple solution would be if you feel you are going to be hit bring freinds. It is a freighter not a fighter. There are game mechanics to prevent this, it is called bring a fleet, or risk your ship, it's that whole risk vs reward thing. Big smile

please show me how to beat an alpha strike. you'll be the most famous man in eve


On a Freighter? You can't as there is nothing to modify to create unexpected scenarios. On another ship, you generally just buffer tank and move fast. Alpha typically relies on slower firing heavy guns like artillery that do a lot of dps all at once. That means they have poor tracking, as do all long range guns in this game. The bigger they are, the worse it is.

But Freighters do not move fast, can't avoid being bumped, and have no variables aside from basic pilot skill modifications. Even those don't change things much due to the fact that you need a minimum skill selection to fly one. A bit, but not much, and not enough to allow them to be unpredictable.

That means anyone with a pen and paper can calculate the dps, alpha, etc.. needed to kill them provided they knew the numbers. Most people could probably do it without the pen and paper. 


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