Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Short range eclipses long range by a huge margin in small gangs due to fact that these engagements tend to happen within heated point range at max, short range weapons completely eclipse long range weapons in every way at this range. Hell even most big fleets that have a much larger engagement radius use short range weapons due to Battleship SR reaching out to 60km.

but the underlying reasons for this are numerous and hard to 'fix'.

The main drone race is Gallente
-True enough. Can't argue that.

the backup drone race is Amarr. Be happy you get drones at all on anything smaller than a battleship.
-While eve lore may support that argument, the reality is that all races and ship classes use drones. Unless there is some radical shake up, drones will continue as they are for a good long time to come.

I would be interested to hear your argument as to why the Stabber specifically shouldn't have a drone bay. Beyond calling it whining.

Pray I do not alter our deal any further.
Ok there Darth Calus

As you'd like to see practical changes to the Omen, I'd like to see the same for the Stabber that allow it to compete with other ships of its class (attack cruisers specifically)

i still fail to see, why frig defence drone bay should be on every cruiser. as you and i agree, there are entire ship classes dedicated to that and a cruiser can be fit to fill this role too.
of course drone add utility, but only when you use non-damage drones likes ecm or web or what ever floats your boat.
but (despite the occuring perma-jam from a ecm drone) these drones tend do be rather underwhelming in performance when you only use 2 or 3 of them (cruiser with smaller drone bays). in the end you are packing warriors or hobgobs for the random frig you otherwise could not touch.

ccp stated attack cruiser should be all about short&fast skirmishes and hit&run tactics. drones are (compared to turrets and missiles) slow and soooo not hit&run.
comabt cruiser on the other side are build for more sustained fighting. drones make a lot more sense here, since there is time to use their potential. because of the long travel time, the fight needs to last for some time, so that the drones get their chance to do some thing.
thats exactly the reason why thorax was made into the attack cruiser and vexor was made into the combat cruiser, despite the "pattern" of making tier2 cruiser attack ships and tier 3 the combat role. vexor in an attack role would have been hilariously dreadful.

the only attack cruiser with a drone bay should be the vexor because its a gallente boat (even the talos got one). omen, stabber and caracal should be without.

I'm assuming you meant the Thorax when referencing Attack Cruiser. Beyond stating "it's Gallente", why does the Thorax need still drones then? What makes it the exception?

As you've indicated, this line of ships is meant for hit and run. Short and fast combat. I personally see that to mean high DPS, high speed engagements. Since you believe drones to be impractical for such combat then the Thorax does not need its drones either. It's 5 guns can provide enough punch without including the "slow" drones.

Every bit of DPS can mean the difference between a kill and a loss. From overheating the guns to the lowly unbonused warrior II pecking away at the target, its all fair game when in combat.

If Attack Cruisers are meant to be gunships, then the Stabber is in dire need of its 5th gun.

I agree with your 5th gun for the Stabber, however the fact that the Thorax has drones at all is the fact that it is a Gallente ship and they are the predominant drone race. I'm totally happy to reduce its drone bay from 50m3 to 25m3 to facilitate use of light fast drones, keeping with the hit and run theme. Also removing the drone bay from the Stabber, Caracal and Omen.

The thorax can only do high damage at point blank range.

- If that's the case, then the Thorax should rely on its drones for damage and not its guns. Drop the gun damage bonus and replace it for drone damage and keep its current bay size. You can't have it both ways.[/quote]

You understood us wrong it seems... the Vexor is the droneboat not the Torax. [/quote]
-Then the Thorax doesn't need the drone bay does it?

Shields, Armor and Speed are attributes of a ship. The drone bay is an add-on.

In the case of the Thorax, drones are an optional weapons system. It's strength is in its guns. Not its drones.

All races has shields, armor, propulsion and drones.

Gallente is 3rd in shields - Caldati 1st, Minmitar 2nd, Amarr 4th
Gallente is 2nd in Armor - Amarr 1st, Minmitar 3rd, Caldari 4th
Gallente is 2nd in Speed - Minmitar 1st, Caldari 3rd, Amarr 4th
Gallente is 1st in Drones - Amarr 2nd, Minmitar 3rd, Caldsri 4th
Gallente is 4th in Sig Radius - Minmitar 1st, Amarr 2nd, Caldari 3rd

So you see, Each race has its speciality. What was your point agian?

Omen is the stepping stone to the harbinger which has 50 m3 drone bay.
Caracal is the stepping stone to a drake which has a 25 m3 drone bay.
Thorax is the stepping stone to the brutix which has a 50 m3 drone bay.
The stabber is atm what looks like the stepping stone to a tornado, which doesnt have a drone bay.

The other races have ships that encourage people to train drones because it doesnt matter what race youre flying youll still need some basic drone skills to get the full potential out of a ship. If you want to change the relation between the other races and drones, this is where change has to happen.

IMO the stabber should get a 5th gun and a 7,5% damage bonus to bring its damage in line with any of the other cruisers, atm its almost out dps-d by a bellicose.