Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What I don't get is why all the races have the same cap recharge rate. You'd think that the ships with cap intensive weapon systems would have stronger capacitors than those with less cap demand.

The proposed omen is still a broken ship. No ship should ever have a "10% per level cap usage" bonus. Remove that bonus from the game completely. By giving it that bonus, it is effectively a single bonus ship like the current maller, omen and the old punisher you recently fixed. Additionally, the omen as an armor tanker is going to be a relatively slow cruiser just like the maller. As such the bonuses need to reflect that fact. The proposed maller realizes that by being an all out brawler with a tanking and damage bonus. Since the omen is in the attack line, both bonuses should be offense based. I suggest a 5% damage and 5% RoF bonus. Another viable alternative is a 5% damage and 10% range bonus.

On a related note, the stabber is once again looking like it will be the best of the attack cruisers. It has far superior speed to the rest combined with excellent damage projection and it doesn't sacrifice tank or dps to do this. That is clearly unbalanced. I suggest setting the stabber up to have that great speed and damage projection, but at the expense of tank and raw damage output. To achieve this, nerf the crap out of it's HP and PG. Aim for a max skilled stabber to be stuck with 180mm AC's, MWD and single LSE. If they can fit anything bigger than 180's, it's overpowered.

Also, the thorax needs more base speed. Since it is an armor tanker (or it's supposed to be) with the shortest ranged weapons, it needs the speed and agility with a plate fitted to close the gap and get on its target. I suggest giving the thorax the highest base speed of them all because of this. Something around 400m/s would be appropriate. It should be a quick, nimble point blank range face melter. It's weakness is that it can't hit anything beyond 7-8km.

Do the research.

The Thorax is 120,000 Kg lighter than the Stabber.

An 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plate adds 1,375,000 Kg. (The lightest non-faction plate that is worth fitting to a cruiser)

You could reduce the weight of a 800mm RRT plate by an order of magnitude and an 800mm tanked Rax will still have more mass than a shield tanked Stabber.

Edit: Wow... even a 200mm RRT Plate (137,500Kg) is enough to bump the Rax's mass over the Stabber.

Introducing a wider variety of plate/extender sizes would probably be a good idea. Having a single viable size would not be much better than the current oversize meta.

Seconding the post above: it's not Armour Boats mass that is the problem, it's the mass of plates.

1600mm plates are balanced. Right sized for BS/BCs; oversized for Cruisers so you trade big tank for big mass increase.
400mm plates are balanced. Too little EHP to be worth it on Cruisers; oversized for Frigs so you trade a big tank for fitting issues and a big mass increase.
200mm plates are barely balanced. Good enough EHP buff to be worth it and not too difficult to fit but does hurt your maneuverability.

The rest aren't really worth it, unless fitting means you have no other option.

Look at the mass and volume of the T1 and T2 plates:
Plate | Mass | Volume
50mm | 18,750Kg | 5m3
100mm | 37,500Kg | 5m3
200mm | 187,500Kg | 10m3
400mm | 375,000Kg | 10m3
800mm | 1,875,000Kg | 20m3
1600mm | 3,750,000Kg | 20m3

It's apparent 50 and 100mm are Frigate sized, 200 and 400mm are Cruiser sized and 800mm and 1600mm are BS sized.

However, it's just not worth fitting a 50 or 100 mm on a Frigate, a 400mm on a Cruiser or a 800mm on a BS. So at present; 200 and 400mm are used on Frigs and Destroyers, 800 and 1600mm on Cruisers and BCs, and 1600mm on BSs.

I'd suggest modifying plates to something like this as a baseline (leaving their EHP and volumes unchanged):

Plate | Mass
50mm | 9,375Kg
100mm | 37,500Kg (honestly, you could probably get rid of this and the 50mm: they're just included for completeness)
200mm | 93,750Kg
400mm | 375,000Kg
800mm | 937,500Kg
1600mm | 3,750,000Kg

This means that for Frigs and Cruisers you have 2 real options for Armour tanking: fit a heavy mod for more tank but drastically less manoeuverability; or a light mod for decent tank (one 800mm Plate II adds similar EHP to a LSEII) and only a (noticable) but minor hit to manoeuvreability.

The result of this, is that armour fit Attack Cruisers are more viable than at present and balancing them should be easier.

Bah, just redesign the system entirely.


Each class should have at least 3 viable sizes, different ones giving maluses to different combinations of top speed, acceleration or inertia. Not just Hp for mass. A frig could fit the smallest Cruiser plate with fitting mods/implants, but it would be silly/bait.

@ Harvey James

You're suggesting 1600mm plates on a Cruiser are OP'd?

Or, are you suggesting 1600mm plated T1 cruisers have too much EHP?

Or, are you suggesting that 1600mm plates are Nerfed on BS's and BS's need more EHP?

Because if none of those are true, then 1600mm plates are balanced as they are.

Because if you buff 200mm and 400mm plates to be relevent on a Cruiser, then you either make 800mm and 1600mm irrelevent on BSs OR you increase the potential EHP you can get on a BS.

My solution leaves the balanced modules (400mm and 1600mm plates) alone.

Because what Eve needs is more EHP in Armour BSs? Right?

And I don't buy "probably too much for a Cruiser". 1600mm Plate cruisers aren't going around wiping the floor with everything else (well the Rupture is... but that's not 'cos of the plate).

Really, your argument is about an aesthetic choice that 'BS modules shouldn't be on Cruiser hulls'.

I agree

5x turrets - fights in fall-off, needs tracking, and fall-off bonuses and can be an attack cruiser if it can fight outside of web-scram range... or some at least be fast with an AB on it.

1x missile is ok for a rocket launcher - anti-drone work.

1x drone is worthless, drop it or put on at least 3, 5 would be better... but 1 is just pointless, less it's a salvage drone.

If it's going to be a glass cannon with speed it def needs to focus totally on range and speed tanking.

Love the new model, not sure how this ship is going to kit out though as proposed... seems like it's the odd ship of the class, and not really a cruiser, but a heavy dessie.

You sir have a poor grasp on how the game works. Cruisers MWD around, that's what they are for. The whole point of a cruiser is greater mobility than a BC or BS. If your cruiser is slower than your BC/BS, then why would you ever bother with it? Amarr use MWD's just as much as the minnies do.