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[Winter] Attack Cruisers

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Author
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#381 - 2012-09-22 01:40:08 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


Bold the important part.

Not like if Thorax was known for it's ability to fit 1600 plates making it a nice suicide ship or awesome Rails fittings/dps on it. Tracking bonus on this hull it's probably the worst bonus you guys could think about, fix the guns first, eventually give it a rof bonus.
This means Thorax is meant for rails, and fit short range guns on it means a wasted bonus. Well nothing says we have to fit blasters on it but then I look at Vexor and think about drones and smartbombs...

Ruppy all the way :sad panda:


The tracking bonus along with 4 mids will make the thorax a bloody frig killing machine.. Which is important if you're roaming in low sec since getting killed by one frig is rather depressing.

The tracking bonus is great, and not just for rails. Stop being bad.



TrouserDeagle wrote:
How about active tanking that isn't 100% reliant on cap boosters? Having to dock up all the time is bad.
Nos should be way better though yeah. It's supposed to be a good defense against neuts, but it only actually drains half the cap/sec. The short duration is helpful, but typically means you can have a very small amount of cap rather than being completely capped out.


This, fitting at least one repper on a cruiser really should be a valid choice.. As it is it really isn't which is VERY pirate unfriendly since we often need to travel under GCC which means needing to rep up a lot. Even if it wasn't for that it would still be nice for reppers being a valid choice for a ship with no tanking bonus simply because you often can't dock for a long time while roaming and not being able to repair up is really not ideal.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#382 - 2012-09-22 04:07:15 UTC
The single token drone on the Stabber is quaint but rather superfluous. The starter frigates have one to give new pilots a taste of the drone interface. (or lack there of) But I would imagine that by the time they step in to a cruiser the training wheels could go ahead and come off.

Why don't you just go ahead and remove it.
4IN1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#383 - 2012-09-22 06:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: 4IN1
With the change to Caracal, what does that mean for Caracal navy issue? Because after the change all advantages that its navy issue have is 1 more launcher slot (that deal more damage).

CCP: Ambition but rubbish

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#384 - 2012-09-22 09:39:07 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The tracking bonus along with 4 mids will make the thorax a bloody frig killing machine.. Which is important if you're roaming in low sec since getting killed by one frig is rather depressing.

The tracking bonus is great, and not just for rails. Stop being bad.


If you fly Thorax with dps drones I understand your need for + tracking to kill the pesky frigate pointing you, however I'm not convinced you'll ever touch it when said frigate is orbiting your Thorax at +15 and over 2km sec.
However if you had some ECM drones you would probably feel better Blink
Just a different point of view, of course.

Blasters being the highest tracking weapon system with T2 long range ammo adding +25% tracking tells me the tracking bonus on the hull makes it a rail platform. You will not hit better frigates at 15/20 pointing you, this tracking bonus is not what you need to get frigates, you need ecm drones or better drone skills.

brb

Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#385 - 2012-09-22 10:22:49 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The tracking bonus along with 4 mids will make the thorax a bloody frig killing machine.. Which is important if you're roaming in low sec since getting killed by one frig is rather depressing.

The tracking bonus is great, and not just for rails. Stop being bad.


If you fly Thorax with dps drones I understand your need for + tracking to kill the pesky frigate pointing you, however I'm not convinced you'll ever touch it when said frigate is orbiting your Thorax at +15 and over 2km sec.
However if you had some ECM drones you would probably feel better Blink
Just a different point of view, of course.

Blasters being the highest tracking weapon system with T2 long range ammo adding +25% tracking tells me the tracking bonus on the hull makes it a rail platform. You will not hit better frigates at 15/20 pointing you, this tracking bonus is not what you need to get frigates, you need ecm drones or better drone skills.



You do realise that Ion Blasters + Null hit out to 5.3km + 7km and you can hit out to falloff x2 which means a total possible range of 19km. You could even put a Tracking Computer into that additional mid slot for 6km + 9km (total 24km with x2 fall off).

You also have the option of using web drones (yes lol, web drones. They really need to be more useful) or strapping the new OP mod which is the Tracking Disruptor on. Means no frig can hit you at 24 km even with missiles probably
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#386 - 2012-09-22 12:16:52 UTC
There is one other implication of a tracking bonus. It means you're more able to use void against targets of your own size
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#387 - 2012-09-22 13:32:46 UTC
Liking these changes EXCEPT why in gods name do you guys insist on giving Minmatar ships missiles? It just makes them worse. Drop a hard point/high altogether and give the stabber 5 guns instead of four and **** off the missiles. It just means Minmi pilots have to train two complete weapons systems AND support skills to get the best out of the ship.

Just get rid of all split weapons systems. It makes no sense, it's annoying and makes no one happy. Please, pretty please.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#388 - 2012-09-22 15:08:24 UTC
Akturous wrote:
Liking these changes EXCEPT why in gods name do you guys insist on giving Minmatar ships missiles? It just makes them worse. Drop a hard point/high altogether and give the stabber 5 guns instead of four and **** off the missiles. It just means Minmi pilots have to train two complete weapons systems AND support skills to get the best out of the ship.

Just get rid of all split weapons systems. It makes no sense, it's annoying and makes no one happy. Please, pretty please.

I thought those two extra slots were for energy neutralizers to pwn tackle frigs and to quickly neut out blaster hulls?
Lili Lu
#389 - 2012-09-22 15:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
This, fitting at least one repper on a cruiser really should be a valid choice.. As it is it really isn't which is VERY pirate unfriendly since we often need to travel under GCC which means needing to rep up a lot. Even if it wasn't for that it would still be nice for reppers being a valid choice for a ship with no tanking bonus simply because you often can't dock for a long time while roaming and not being able to repair up is really not ideal.

Fitting an active armor repper will always be sad joke in comparison to active shield considering the advantages of active shield reppers and now the ASBs. If you fit buffer and one repper for the after fight repping you are sacrificing on your buffer while the reper won't help much in a fight. Even with a 10% repper bonus you need two reppers to make it viable tactic for combat, and if you do that you need a cap injector and of course the mwd and whoops where did my grid go to fit any guns worth mentioning.P

The after fight mechanic you seek would actually be better served by giving the regenerative membranes and platings a true regenerative component in addition to the raw hp bonus. It could be a very slow regen, nothing like a shield regen, but a regen none the less. So you could go ss for a while (tens of minutes) and have armor damage very slowly repair. This would boost some modules that see no use except maybe on a supercapital. And it would address the problem you raise.
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#390 - 2012-09-22 15:12:10 UTC
Even with this changes attack cruisers still don't fulfil any role that Battlecruisers don't.

You have to diversify them by the purpose, not cost or power,
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#391 - 2012-09-22 15:16:00 UTC
Kaikka Carel wrote:
Even with this changes attack cruisers still don't fulfil any role that Battlecruisers don't.

You have to diversify them by the purpose, not cost or power,


Well if all the attack cruisers were like stabbers then yes they will fulfill a role the bc's can't

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#392 - 2012-09-22 20:12:30 UTC
Hearing a lot of negative **** about cane changes- the only ship that didn't need a tweak
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#393 - 2012-09-22 20:24:48 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
This, fitting at least one repper on a cruiser really should be a valid choice.. As it is it really isn't which is VERY pirate unfriendly since we often need to travel under GCC which means needing to rep up a lot. Even if it wasn't for that it would still be nice for reppers being a valid choice for a ship with no tanking bonus simply because you often can't dock for a long time while roaming and not being able to repair up is really not ideal.

Fitting an active armor repper will always be sad joke in comparison to active shield considering the advantages of active shield reppers and now the ASBs. If you fit buffer and one repper for the after fight repping you are sacrificing on your buffer while the reper won't help much in a fight. Even with a 10% repper bonus you need two reppers to make it viable tactic for combat, and if you do that you need a cap injector and of course the mwd and whoops where did my grid go to fit any guns worth mentioning.P

The after fight mechanic you seek would actually be better served by giving the regenerative membranes and platings a true regenerative component in addition to the raw hp bonus. It could be a very slow regen, nothing like a shield regen, but a regen none the less. So you could go ss for a while (tens of minutes) and have armor damage very slowly repair. This would boost some modules that see no use except maybe on a supercapital. And it would address the problem you raise.



Well at least CCP acknowledges that there is a problem with armour tanking

CCP Fozzie wrote:

The problem here is a deeper issue around armor tanking. Ideally you would choose shield tanking for speed and damage and you would choose armor tanking for better HP and better utility through midslots. 1600mm plates requiring more PG than LSEs isn't inherently bad, but we need to make other changes to ensure that armor is a more viable option.


Maybe we will finally get to the point where active armour becomes a viable alternative to shields.
.
.
.
Maybe some day
Lol
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#394 - 2012-09-22 20:45:09 UTC
CraftyCroc wrote:
Hearing a lot of negative **** about cane changes- the only ship that didn't need a tweak

-sincerely, minmatar only pilot.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#395 - 2012-09-22 20:53:23 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:

I thought those two extra slots were for energy neutralizers to pwn tackle frigs and to quickly neut out blaster hulls?


Or maybe some defender launchers, if they ever become useful. Either way, the stabber is still a little weak in the deeps department. Another turret, more drones or even just another low slot would bring it to more practical levels, while still keeping it out of the "damage dealer" role.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#396 - 2012-09-22 21:40:12 UTC
You cant give the stabber more damage because of its great range and speed. The brutix gets 1200dps vs cane 600 dps, yet everyone fly canes.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#397 - 2012-09-22 21:51:20 UTC
practical for 'heavier than frigate speedy tackle,' that's for sure!

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#398 - 2012-09-22 21:56:33 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
This, fitting at least one repper on a cruiser really should be a valid choice.. As it is it really isn't which is VERY pirate unfriendly since we often need to travel under GCC which means needing to rep up a lot. Even if it wasn't for that it would still be nice for reppers being a valid choice for a ship with no tanking bonus simply because you often can't dock for a long time while roaming and not being able to repair up is really not ideal.

Fitting an active armor repper will always be sad joke in comparison to active shield considering the advantages of active shield reppers and now the ASBs. If you fit buffer and one repper for the after fight repping you are sacrificing on your buffer while the reper won't help much in a fight. Even with a 10% repper bonus you need two reppers to make it viable tactic for combat, and if you do that you need a cap injector and of course the mwd and whoops where did my grid go to fit any guns worth mentioning.P

The after fight mechanic you seek would actually be better served by giving the regenerative membranes and platings a true regenerative component in addition to the raw hp bonus. It could be a very slow regen, nothing like a shield regen, but a regen none the less. So you could go ss for a while (tens of minutes) and have armor damage very slowly repair. This would boost some modules that see no use except maybe on a supercapital. And it would address the problem you raise.


I would really prefer a med rep buff tbh..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Lili Lu
#399 - 2012-09-22 22:13:15 UTC
Uris Vitgar wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:

I thought those two extra slots were for energy neutralizers to pwn tackle frigs and to quickly neut out blaster hulls?


Or maybe some defender launchers, if they ever become useful. . .

Forget defenders. They've been broken for a long time and not due to being pre-nerfed. Apparently the coding and performance issues on them are a real problem. Sure we'd probably all like something like point defense turrets or defenders missiles or flares to chuck out and cause missiles to miss. But they all have technical problems or too much server load to overcome it appears.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#400 - 2012-09-22 22:21:50 UTC
Uris Vitgar wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:

I thought those two extra slots were for energy neutralizers to pwn tackle frigs and to quickly neut out blaster hulls?


Or maybe some defender launchers, if they ever become useful. Either way, the stabber is still a little weak in the deeps department. Another turret, more drones or even just another low slot would bring it to more practical levels, while still keeping it out of the "damage dealer" role.


It might be a little weak in the DPS department, but it still has significantly more DPS than a blaster/laser boat when it's neuted their cap away.