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Keeping Bittervets, good or bad?
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Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#1 - 2012-09-18 01:29:46 UTC
So, what do you think New Eden? Would we be better off with out all the grumpy old vets yelling about every small change or are they an asset to us providing a view point from in the rose colored glass box to remind us how not to get stuck in the past?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#2 - 2012-09-18 01:39:31 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
So, what do you think New Eden? Would we be better off with out all the grumpy old vets yelling about every small change or are they an asset to us providing a view point from in the rose colored glass box to remind us how not to get stuck in the past?

logged back in today after 4+ months away and can't find my danged corp hangar. gave up and played a game of chess instead.

am i grumpy old vet?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-09-18 01:40:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Oliver
You've reminded me of a passage from the novel 1984 where Winston contemplates the fact that most of the people who were alive before the revolution have passed away, and that the unaltered truth passed with them. Yes I think keeping veteran players around is not only a good thing but vital to the continued wellbeing of the game itself, like real life elders they can tell the rest of us what this game has been in the past, and because of that experience we rely on them to speak up if CCP ever repeats mistakes.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-09-18 01:41:53 UTC
No, we would not be better off and don't think that my being a 2004 character is in anyway a bias!

Back on track, what are you actually trying to debate here ?
Do you think CCP would nerf/ban/reset all of new edens older characters, because they're old ?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#5 - 2012-09-18 01:45:18 UTC
Skogen Gump wrote:
No, we would not be better off and don't think that my being a 2004 character is in anyway a bias!

Back on track, what are you actually trying to debate here ?
Do you think CCP would nerf/ban/reset all of new edens older characters, because they're old ?




Logans Run?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-09-18 01:45:50 UTC
Damn ungrateful little kids

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#7 - 2012-09-18 01:56:42 UTC
Simply a question, I came here since the General forums seem to have the largest concentration of bittervets.

I'm not using the term in a negative connotation mind you.
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#8 - 2012-09-18 02:05:58 UTC
Respect your elders! X

MinerBumping.com
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#9 - 2012-09-18 02:14:13 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Respect your elders! X


Now I will admit EvE probably has set the record for number of long term retained players, but always try to appeal to a base that started playing years ago is a hopeless task, and will make everything one think your trying to live in the past.

Cataclysm was Blizzard's attempt to play to the Hardcore long term player, now they see sub prices rising again as they have just said "**** it" and are now going for the new player base with the next expansion like they did before.

Funniest thing I have noticed in all my years of gaming, a bittervet ( or old fart, angry fanboy, ect ) will almost always never quit, only complain.

Even funnier than that? WoW and EvE share so many of the same problems, released years ago and are constantly working hard to keep relevant as time move on, have a vocal minority of angry veteran players, both are always considered dieing, have an old graphics engine that is constantly improved upon through patches, and both constantly set an industry standard for what is considered "The best".
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#10 - 2012-09-18 02:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
So, what do you think New Eden? Would we be better off with out all the grumpy old vets yelling about every small change or are they an asset to us providing a view point from in the rose colored glass box to remind us how not to get stuck in the past?

While we thank you veteran players for making this game what it is today, for providing the necessary funding and word-of-mouth marketing that made CCP a successful company in the MMO scene, for developing EVE's economy, for creating a plethora of OOG websites and resources to stimulate gameplay, for creating lots of player-driven content within the game, for sticking up for the core integrity of the game when it is challenged by errors in judgement, for keeping the game's community alive even when bad changes do go through, for teaching new players the intricacies of the game, for the massive real-life charity efforts undertaken by your in-game wealth, for being responsible for the unique success of the world's only open-ended sci-fi spaceship MMO, and for many other reasons that cannot be mentioned here due to the constraints of space and time, we feel that it is time for you to leave.

We may be new, but we have a lot of opinions and ideas that are superior to anything you may believe in, because we are the new, enlightened, tolerant generation, and own iPhones. We know what is best for EVE, beyond anything that you might know. We have Facebook accounts and make good use of Twitter, and are thus very well-versed in the functions of social environments such as EVE Online. Our experience with mining and group-running level two missions provides us with superior credentials for dictating the direction of the game's development, because a focus on developer-made content demonstrates a true understanding of game mechanics. Our understanding of morality is that of the elite echelons of human society, of people who are responsible for all of the modern world's progress and prosperity.

But most importantly, we are entitled to get what we want because we are paying customers. In fact, if you do not leave by your own volition, we ask that you be expelled from the game by force, because your presence is clearly detrimental to the game's existence.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#11 - 2012-09-18 02:20:48 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
So, what do you think New Eden? Would we be better off with out all the grumpy old vets yelling about every small change or are they an asset to us providing a view point from in the rose colored glass box to remind us how not to get stuck in the past?

While we thank you veteran players for making this game what it is today, for providing the necessary funding and word-of-mouth marketing that made CCP a successful company in the MMO scene, for developing EVE's economy, for creating a plethora of OOG websites and resources to stimulate gameplay, for creating lots of player-driven content within the game, for sticking up for the core integrity of the game when it is challenged by errors in judgement, for keeping the game's community alive even when bad changes do go through, for teaching new players the intricacies of the game, for the massive real-life charity efforts undertaken by their in-game wealth, for being responsible for the unique success of the world's only open-ended sci-fi spaceship MMO, and for many other reasons that cannot be mentioned here due to the constraints of space and time, we feel that is time for you to leave.

We may be new, but we have a lot of opinions and ideas that are superior to anything you may believe in, because we are the new, enlightened, tolerant generation, and own iPhones. We know what is best for EVE, beyond anything that you might know. We have Facebook accounts and make good use of Twitter, and are thus very well-versed in the functions of social environments such as EVE Online. Our experience with mining and group-running level two missions provides us with superior credentials for dictating the direction of the game's development, because a focus on developer-made content demonstrates a true understanding of game mechanics. Our understanding of morality is that of the elite echelons of human society, of people who are responsible for all of the modern world's progress and prosperity.

But most importantly, we are entitled to get what we want because we are paying customers. In fact, if you do not leave by your own volition, we ask that you be expelled from the game by force, because your presence is clearly detrimental to the game's existence.


I never say they should leave, I simply want to have perspective.

I am somewhat wealthy ( several hundred million in assets ), I rat, mine, build, and PvP. I just often feel as though I am disconnected from these so called veterans.

Now, I will refute the point that Veterans are all out there to help new players, because EvE online would not struggle for getting new players if every Veteran loved helping new players. This is the exact opposite way around, most Veterans merely view the new player as a way to make a quick buck at an uninformed fellow players expense.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-09-18 02:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Oliver
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We may be new, but we have a lot of opinions and ideas that are superior to anything you may believe in, because we are the new, enlightened, tolerant generation, and own iPhones. We know what is best for EVE, beyond anything that you might know. We have Facebook accounts and make good use of Twitter, and are thus very well-versed in the functions of social environments such as EVE Online. Our experience with mining and group-running level two missions provides us with superior credentials for dictating the direction of the game's development, because a focus on developer-made content demonstrates a true understanding of game mechanics. Our understanding of morality is that of the elite echelons of human society, of people who are responsible for all of the modern world's progress and prosperity.
Someone should spank you and send you to bed with no electricity.
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Now, I will refute the point that Veterans are all out there to help new players, because EvE online would not struggle for getting new players if every Veteran loved helping new players. This is the exact opposite way around, most Veterans merely view the new player as a way to make a quick buck at an uninformed fellow players expense.
Thats part of EVE's attraction though, if I've learned anything so far its that the essance of EVE is applied social darwinism, those who can not adapt walk away, those who can stay and eventually thrive. Its not always a pleasant experience but when one does manage to find a niche and thrive having done so makes the experience all the more enjoyable.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#13 - 2012-09-18 02:26:33 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Now, I will refute the point that Veterans are all out there to help new players, because EvE online would not struggle for getting new players if every Veteran loved helping new players. This is the exact opposite way around, most Veterans merely view the new player as a way to make a quick buck at an uninformed fellow players expense.

All our cute newbies :shobon:

Just today I saw a discussion on the jabber channel about how we needed to get more newbies in. You'd think with a war on we should be swimming in adorable newbies.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-09-18 03:38:51 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
So, what do you think New Eden? Would we be better off with out all the grumpy old vets yelling about every small change or are they an asset to us providing a view point from in the rose colored glass box to remind us how not to get stuck in the past?

While we thank you veteran players for making this game what it is today, for providing the necessary funding and word-of-mouth marketing that made CCP a successful company in the MMO scene, for developing EVE's economy, for creating a plethora of OOG websites and resources to stimulate gameplay, for creating lots of player-driven content within the game, for sticking up for the core integrity of the game when it is challenged by errors in judgement, for keeping the game's community alive even when bad changes do go through, for teaching new players the intricacies of the game, for the massive real-life charity efforts undertaken by your in-game wealth, for being responsible for the unique success of the world's only open-ended sci-fi spaceship MMO, and for many other reasons that cannot be mentioned here due to the constraints of space and time, we feel that it is time for you to leave.

We may be new, but we have a lot of opinions and ideas that are superior to anything you may believe in, because we are the new, enlightened, tolerant generation, and own iPhones. We know what is best for EVE, beyond anything that you might know. We have Facebook accounts and make good use of Twitter, and are thus very well-versed in the functions of social environments such as EVE Online. Our experience with mining and group-running level two missions provides us with superior credentials for dictating the direction of the game's development, because a focus on developer-made content demonstrates a true understanding of game mechanics. Our understanding of morality is that of the elite echelons of human society, of people who are responsible for all of the modern world's progress and prosperity.

But most importantly, we are entitled to get what we want because we are paying customers. In fact, if you do not leave by your own volition, we ask that you be expelled from the game by force, because your presence is clearly detrimental to the game's existence.


Lol
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#15 - 2012-09-18 04:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Respect your elders! X


Now I will admit EvE probably has set the record for number of long term retained players, but always try to appeal to a base that started playing years ago is a hopeless task, and will make everything one think your trying to live in the past.

Cataclysm was Blizzard's attempt to play to the Hardcore long term player, now they see sub prices rising again as they have just said "**** it" and are now going for the new player base with the next expansion like they did before.

Funniest thing I have noticed in all my years of gaming, a bittervet ( or old fart, angry fanboy, ect ) will almost always never quit, only complain.

Even funnier than that? WoW and EvE share so many of the same problems, released years ago and are constantly working hard to keep relevant as time move on, have a vocal minority of angry veteran players, both are always considered dieing, have an old graphics engine that is constantly improved upon through patches, and both constantly set an industry standard for what is considered "The best".


EVE doesn't have an old graphics engine iirc. It does have some old graphics though, but they are being updated. Take a flyby of some planets, or go into CQ and take a walk around. Hardly anything old or outdated about that; honestly, it's better than any game out there.

edit: I guess it's all a matter of what you consider old. It was replaced in 2007 with the Trinity2 graphics engine, which was the base for the Carbon framework.

Besides that, you have to ask yourself how 'old' Unreal Engine is, or how old other graphics engines are. It's not like it is really necessary to completely replace some technologies. Updating them to keep up with, or exceed, industry standards is often enough.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#16 - 2012-09-18 04:46:18 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
EVE doesn't have an old graphics engine iirc. It does have some old graphics though, but they are being updated. Take a flyby of some planets, or go into CQ and take a walk around. Hardly anything old or outdated about that; honestly, it's better than any game out there.

edit: I guess it's all a matter of what you consider old. It was replaced in 2007 with the Trinity2 graphics engine, which was the base for the Carbon framework.

Hmm, yeah it looks pretty co-
Mars Theran wrote:
or go into CQ and take a walk around

Shocked

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#17 - 2012-09-18 05:32:24 UTC
f*** bittervets Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-09-18 06:10:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
So, what do you think New Eden? Would we be better off with out all the grumpy old vets yelling about every small change or are they an asset to us providing a view point from in the rose colored glass box to remind us how not to get stuck in the past?

While we thank you veteran players for making this game what it is today, for providing the necessary funding and word-of-mouth marketing that made CCP a successful company in the MMO scene, for developing EVE's economy, for creating a plethora of OOG websites and resources to stimulate gameplay, for creating lots of player-driven content within the game, for sticking up for the core integrity of the game when it is challenged by errors in judgement, for keeping the game's community alive even when bad changes do go through, for teaching new players the intricacies of the game, for the massive real-life charity efforts undertaken by your in-game wealth, for being responsible for the unique success of the world's only open-ended sci-fi spaceship MMO, and for many other reasons that cannot be mentioned here due to the constraints of space and time, we feel that it is time for you to leave.

We may be new, but we have a lot of opinions and ideas that are superior to anything you may believe in, because we are the new, enlightened, tolerant generation, and own iPhones. We know what is best for EVE, beyond anything that you might know. We have Facebook accounts and make good use of Twitter, and are thus very well-versed in the functions of social environments such as EVE Online. Our experience with mining and group-running level two missions provides us with superior credentials for dictating the direction of the game's development, because a focus on developer-made content demonstrates a true understanding of game mechanics. Our understanding of morality is that of the elite echelons of human society, of people who are responsible for all of the modern world's progress and prosperity.

But most importantly, we are entitled to get what we want because we are paying customers. In fact, if you do not leave by your own volition, we ask that you be expelled from the game by force, because your presence is clearly detrimental to the game's existence.


Hipster

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
William Walker
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#19 - 2012-09-18 06:16:51 UTC
Ban all characters created before 2010 and divide their assets under the noobs! DEATH TO BITTERVETS X

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ﾉ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#20 - 2012-09-18 06:19:47 UTC
"Its not like we can get rid of them. They are a disease." - Agent Smith, the Matrix.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

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