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Amarr/ Minmatar FW Map

Author
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#1 - 2012-09-16 16:37:13 UTC
Over half of the battlefield isn't used. I propose a connection between Gulmorogod and Ualkin. This would tie the Amamake area to a backwater area of Metropolis and hopefully pull it more into play.

Kourmonen is a central system to either side in the war. It's adjacent to Kamela, Lamaa, Huola, and Auga. It's two jumps to Dal or Siseide. It's four jumps from Arzad. It's five jumps from Sahtogas and Rens. Kourm, in fact is central to the point of killing FW and need for strategy or decision making. Simply set up your booster alts in whatever system catches your fancy for the day and farm the kills. In this way FW is very noob unfriendly. I propose deleting the Kourm/ Auga gate and making the system a bit less important.

Discuss. Shocked
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#2 - 2012-09-16 18:43:47 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Over half of the battlefield isn't used. I propose a connection between Gulmorogod and Ualkin. This would tie the Amamake area to a backwater area of Metropolis and hopefully pull it more into play.

Kourmonen is a central system to either side in the war. It's adjacent to Kamela, Lamaa, Huola, and Auga. It's two jumps to Dal or Siseide. It's four jumps from Arzad. It's five jumps from Sahtogas and Rens. Kourm, in fact is central to the point of killing FW and need for strategy or decision making. Simply set up your booster alts in whatever system catches your fancy for the day and farm the kills. In this way FW is very noob unfriendly. I propose deleting the Kourm/ Auga gate and making the system a bit less important.

Discuss. Shocked


Delete Kour, Auga and Kamela altogether.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2012-09-16 19:00:35 UTC
Would be awesome if we had some sort of revision of the Shakorite/Amarr warzone. There needs to be short-cuts, back-doors, ambush points etc. littered all over the place.

As for specific changes .. 'meh' .. whatever Smile
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#4 - 2012-09-16 21:19:28 UTC
We definitely don't need more systems. But things should be a little more spread out. As it is right now the Kamela/ Kourm area is a meat grinder. New people aren't going to stick around for that.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2012-09-16 21:41:11 UTC
Every war has its "focal point" where the bulk of both sides clash. If Kourm was removed, then another system will take its place.

Human nature is a hard thing to beat.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#6 - 2012-09-16 22:24:27 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Every war has its "focal point" where the bulk of both sides clash. If Kourm was removed, then another system will take its place.

Human nature is a hard thing to beat.


I'm not suggesting the removal of Kourm. That is grumpy above us. I'm suggesting the removal of the Kourm/ Auga connection. The result is that Dal is 7 jumps away from Kourm. There would have to be a little more thought into where you stage ships. This would work both ways for each side.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#7 - 2012-09-17 08:18:02 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
We definitely don't need more systems. But things should be a little more spread out. As it is right now the Kamela/ Kourm area is a meat grinder. New people aren't going to stick around for that.

Not more systems, but a revision of connections as you have started doing. Removing Kourm/Auga has the unfortunate effect of making Ezzara/Vard the only access point which will make Vard the new Kourm . .defeating the purpose.

The trick to a dynamic front is to reduce the amount of focal points by having multiple 'options' for any given gang/fleet when deciding where to make a stand as well as offering the enemy the ability to bypass said gang/fleet if fight is deemed unrealistic .. when I left one side almost always had absolute superiority and fights were really just ganks, primarily on gates, result was for the smaller to dock up (or go mission whoring) and wait for their own prime-time.

With the ability to give an enemy the run around (NB: not to be confused with a reach around!) you invariably force larger gangs/fleets to be more mobile and hopefully getting more actual fights as a result .. a lot of blood can be spilled before a "main force" can arrive on scene.

But ... It has been how many years of the exact same paradigms being used, gank when possible and dock/mission when not, question is if people are even interested in continual small scale fighting or if the one or two large romps in between ISK printing is the limit to participants need for blood.
Dan Carter Murray
#8 - 2012-09-17 10:18:09 UTC
create kurnianen to avenod stargate.

create brin to lulm stargate.

create uisper to hofjaldgund stargate.

problem solved.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#9 - 2012-09-17 16:49:18 UTC
The design of the map is not really to blame.

If you want people fighting in these areas again then:

1)end the no docking rule.

2) make it so plexing and therefore the sov war in general is no longer a pve activity.



Otherwise just enjoy the rvb like fights kourm provides.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#10 - 2012-09-17 17:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
And also add Saidusoros to Turnur and you're set.

Edit: What Dan said.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-09-17 18:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: BolsterBomb
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
create kurnianen to avenod stargate.

create brin to lulm stargate.

create uisper to hofjaldgund stargate.

problem solved.



EDIT

however the general problem from my time out there is that no one will spread out. Any amaar corp willing to go to the north can put a real foot hole there and swing the state of the fw zone. As it is people only fight in 4 systems.

Lame

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#12 - 2012-09-17 20:40:52 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
create kurnianen to avenod stargate.

create brin to lulm stargate.

create uisper to hofjaldgund stargate.

problem solved.


Sounds good, alternatively something like

Oyeman - Ebolfer

Roushzar - Turnur
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#13 - 2012-09-17 20:41:36 UTC
That idea has been brought up frequently. Such a move would make alot of people depend on a few for logistics. There is also the chance it might be plain boring. The inhabitants of the area are mostly in the European TZ. Amarrian invaders are predominantly in the US TZ. It could turn into a plexing battle with no real fights. That is the pushback I get at least when I push the idea.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#14 - 2012-09-18 11:55:47 UTC
The problem is that people are just too lazy to take care of logistics and not a problem of the map. I think it is good if you sometimes have to think twice if you want to move somewhere. Being able to move everywhere at almost no costs is stupid. You just have to look at 0.0 where jump bridges removed small scale PVP and resulted in heavy camps and choke points. I really don't want to have this in low-sec.

If you want to herass the enemy deep in his space then you have several solutions:

  1. Get a nano ship and travel there and herass.
  2. Set up a fleet in your territory and move with whole fleet and herass.
  3. Set up a POS.
  4. Base yourself in a nerby high-sec system... there you can dock etc. (e.g. if you want to herass Lulm then go to Dammalin and create your own HQ there).
Mra Rednu
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#15 - 2012-09-18 12:38:53 UTC

How about Rens > Amarr and be done with all that low sec shenanigans.
David Devant
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#16 - 2012-09-18 13:34:23 UTC
No to Auga/Kourm delete. Yes to increased Metro connects.

To add to what Medetril says however, your lot should really consider setting up an outpost in Metro. Many of the minmatard militia will remember how effective Black Soul Industries were when they lived in Ardar. Maybe its time for you to man up? For all the little scares we've had, our complete domination of the warzone must be getting embarrassing for you now? No? Not even a little bit? Ashamed I mean? No?



k
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#17 - 2012-09-18 13:56:14 UTC
Meditril wrote:
The problem is that people are just too lazy to take care of logistics and not a problem of the map.


Coming from the "lets camp eszur/hof with neutral resebo/loki/logi alts" corp, your opinion is 100% irrelevant.

On the Caldari/Gallente map if a gate is permacamped, there is another way. If Eszur/Hof is permacamped, you have to travel all the way around. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Amarr_VS_Minmatar/Hofjaldgund
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2012-09-18 15:50:42 UTC
Meditril wrote:
The problem is that people are just too lazy to take care of logistics and not a problem of the map. I think it is good if you sometimes have to think twice if you want to move somewhere. Being able to move everywhere at almost no costs is stupid. You just have to look at 0.0 where jump bridges removed small scale PVP and resulted in heavy camps and choke points. I really don't want to have this in low-sec.

If you want to herass the enemy deep in his space then you have several solutions:

  1. Get a nano ship and travel there and herass.
  2. Set up a fleet in your territory and move with whole fleet and herass.
  3. Set up a POS.
  4. Base yourself in a nerby high-sec system... there you can dock etc. (e.g. if you want to herass Lulm then go to Dammalin and create your own HQ there).



Right we have all these options but most of the war zone is still empty. Call the players lazy or whatever you want, I don't think that is going to change anything.

People don't only want to fly nano.

Nor do they want wait for a large fleet to form up so they can go roaming around empty systems.

Set up a pos is pretty expensive and doesn't offer much of what a station offers.

Basing in enemy high sec is the best solution you offer but the pvp in fw is getting stagnant so people are fighting neutrals and losing sec status.



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#19 - 2012-09-18 16:05:10 UTC
David Devant wrote:
No to Auga/Kourm delete. Yes to increased Metro connects.


Effectively making the universe smaller by adding more connects has drawbacks. I agree the minmatar gatecamps in hof/eszur are, and always have been, lame so another route would be good. However just making it so a blob can cover the whole front of faction war in 5 jumps creates more problems than it solves.

Most people said the war would be concentrated to a few systems when the no docking rule was announced. And they were right. Just let people dock in the stations and the war will be spread out. There is no drawback to ending this stupid rule.

And no making docking depend on people paying lp into the ihub is not a good solution. No one is going to place ships in a station when they know the enemy can lock them out by just paying some lp.


David Devant wrote:

To add to what Medetril says however, your lot should really consider setting up an outpost in Metro. Many of the minmatard militia will remember how effective Black Soul Industries were when they lived in Ardar. Maybe its time for you to man up? For all the little scares we've had, our complete domination of the warzone must be getting embarrassing for you now? No? Not even a little bit? Ashamed I mean? No?

k


At this point you have to be kidding right? I mean plexing is an unabashed carebear game that has nothing to do with shame or pride. If anything I would think minmatar would be ashamed when all the farmers converged after amarr hit tier 4 for 30 seconds or so. It sort of demonstrated how silly your boasting is - unless you like to boast about carebearing.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-09-18 16:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SeaSaw
Good Sirs;

How do I find this map?

yours
SamDog

I know, I don't know how to play, but I think FW is easier than the rest of the game, so I am working on it.
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