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Aggression/Log off issues

Author
Hobogear
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-09-28 18:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hobogear
A jf pilot lands on a highsec gate from low sec. he jumps threw. on the other side, there is a war target to the jf pilot. the jf pilot logs off while still cloaked giving the wartarget pilot roughly 15 to 20 secs to burn threw all the shields, armor, and hull. unless he has alot of people with him this isnt going to happen the jf pilot disappears. 20 to 30 mins later the pilot of the jf is booted from his corp while not logged in. the pilot logs in to the wartargets safely and flys away.

how in anyway should this be allowed by ccp as a game mechanic. anytime ccp is going to take down the server they post a message saying get safe. if you log off in a dangerous area the risk of being pointed and killed right when you log off should be still there. if you dont want to die while logged off log off in a "safe" place. in no way should logging off be a viable option to avoid death.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#2 - 2011-09-28 18:59:39 UTC
Bring more friends next time...

The Drake is a Lie

Hobogear
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-09-28 19:17:54 UTC
not everyone likes blobs. that excuse is weak since its excusing the jf pilot logging off to avoid combat. not to mention the leaving corp to avoid death while in space logged off.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#4 - 2011-09-28 19:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Hobogear wrote:
not everyone likes blobs. that excuse is weak since its excusing the jf pilot logging off to avoid combat. not to mention the leaving corp to avoid death while in space logged off.


What combat? He's in a jump freighter... what the hell else is he going to do?

EDIT: He is a ****** for using a JF during wartime.

Katrina Oniseki

Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-09-28 19:31:27 UTC
Hobogear wrote:
a JF pilot was smarter than me, change the game to my liking QQ abloobloobloo


Fixed that.
Hobogear
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-09-28 19:31:39 UTC
lol what combat, lets not get into that topic of what is combat and what isnt. eve has all different kinds of pvp. attacking a war target in empire be it a jf or a bs is all pvp combat. again you are excusing a pilot of logging off to avoid combat. then excusing him of getting kicked from corp while in space to avoid death in empire. the latter has been petioned but the first is still lame but still allowed for some reason.
Jita Alt666
#7 - 2011-09-28 19:39:46 UTC
The Jump Freighter is pilot is going to pause for 5 -10 seconds to assess his options and make a decision. That is your window to de-cloak the poor sap and get a point on him. Once point is achieved you have 15 minutes to finish him off.
My advice: learn how to de-cloak more efficiently.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-09-28 19:42:00 UTC
Let's look at the problem logically:

If a frigate did the same tactic, you would easily destroy it as soon as it uncloaked, assuming you could lock it before it warped off. it has low shield, armor, and hull - easy enough to shoot and pop.

So the answer "Bring more friends" is appropriate here. You could easily pop some ships that do this - it's only certain classes which have hit points in excess of the amount of damage you can perform in the amount of time you have to kill them. For those situations, having more people shooting it would enable you to accomplish your goal.

As for why it's allowed - because CCP chose to err on the side of their customers in terms of the vagaries of internet connections.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#9 - 2011-09-28 19:46:03 UTC
I do not see how it matters.... If CCP change the mechanics to prevent this, then JF alts will just stay in the NPC corps full time. They will continue to cyno from station to station, warp from their last low sec station to the high sec gate, and then haul around high sec with impunity.

If you can not tell, I am not much of a fan off EVE's very binary system of risk management. You either do things incorrectly and DIAF, or use the game mechanics to be completely safe no matter what.
Hobogear
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2011-09-28 19:46:19 UTC
"The Jump Freighter is pilot is going to pause for 5 -10 seconds to assess his options and make a decision. That is your window to de-cloak the poor sap and get a point on him. Once point is achieved you have 15 minutes to finish him off.
My advice: learn how to de-cloak more efficiently."


incorrect, if he logs while still cloaked after jumping threw a gate he doesnt aquire aggression. nor will the point hold him.
Jita Alt666
#11 - 2011-09-28 19:51:59 UTC
Hobogear wrote:
"The Jump Freighter is pilot is going to pause for 5 -10 seconds to assess his options and make a decision. That is your window to de-cloak the poor sap and get a point on him. Once point is achieved you have 15 minutes to finish him off.
My advice: learn how to de-cloak more efficiently."


incorrect, if he logs while still cloaked after jumping threw a gate he doesnt aquire aggression. nor will the point hold him.


before he logs he will pause to assess his options... ...you have to de-cloak him in that time to initiate aggression... ...this is possible... ...if you fail to de cloak him and he logs then normal log out mechanics apply...

Learn to read.
Hobogear
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-09-28 19:52:25 UTC
"Let's look at the problem logically:

If a frigate did the same tactic, you would easily destroy it as soon as it uncloaked, assuming you could lock it before it warped off. it has low shield, armor, and hull - easy enough to shoot and pop.

So the answer "Bring more friends" is appropriate here. You could easily pop some ships that do this - it's only certain classes which have hit points in excess of the amount of damage you can perform in the amount of time you have to kill them. For those situations, having more people shooting it would enable you to accomplish your goal.

As for why it's allowed - because CCP chose to err on the side of their customers in terms of the vagaries of internet connections."



so in your view, logging off to avoid death is a valid tactic? yes i am sure the internet dropping at the exact time you jump threw a gate in a 5 billion isk ship into war targets is really happening.
Hobogear
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-09-28 19:56:04 UTC
"before he logs he will pause to assess his options... ...you have to de-cloak him in that time to initiate aggression... ...this is possible... ...if you fail to de cloak him and he logs then normal log out mechanics apply...

Learn to read"


you cannot decloak someone who just jumped threw the gate, they have one minute of cloak time if they choose. so decloaking him isnt a option. we are not talking about a covert ops hauler here we are discussing a JUMP Freighter, no mods, no cloak.

learn eve
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-28 21:02:07 UTC
Would I like to get easier JF kills? Sure. The mechanic isn't broken, though. Your planning for a JF kill should include being able to burn through that much hp quickly enough.

Petition Blizzard about it, I hear they make the game easier for people who don't play it well all the time. Maybe they'll buy Iceland for you.
Hobogear
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-09-28 21:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zymurgist
"Would I like to get easier JF kills? Sure. The mechanic isn't broken, though. Your planning for a JF kill should include being able to burn through that much hp quickly enough.

Petition Blizzard about it, I hear they make the game easier for people who don't play it well all the time. Maybe they'll buy Iceland for you. "


yeah logging off to avoid combat does sound like something allowed in wow. if the mechanic isnt broken then it means its policy. log off to avoid combat should be in the next eve is real video.



I was there, when a jump freighter jumped into our camp. I was there when the jump freighter pilot was a chicken **** and logged off to avoid death. I was there when the forum carebears protected a guy logging off to avoid combat. I was there.

silly carebears. learn eve

Please do not evade the profanity filter. Zymurgist
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#16 - 2011-09-28 21:18:25 UTC
Hobogear wrote:
learn eve
Yes, maybe you should.
Of the things you describe, only the part about leaving corp while in space is even remotely an issue.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#17 - 2011-09-28 21:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Hobogear wrote:

I was there, when a jump freighter jumped into our camp. I was there when the jump freighter pilot was a chicken 5h1t and logged off to avoid death. I was there when the forum carebears protected a guy logging off to avoid combat. I was there.

silly carebears. learn eve


Don't avoid the profanity filter.

Anyways, put yourself in the JF's shoes. If you got caught by your war-targets (assuming you're dumb enough to pilot a JF during a war) in highsec after jumping through a gate... would you just lay back and say,

"Welp, good game, guys! I guess you really got me this time! Nothing I can do about it... well I could log off, but that wouldn't be honorable, would it? Have fun with my multi-billion ISK killmail!"


I didn't think so. You'd log off too, and you dang well know it.

Quit whining.

EDIT: I find it funny that most of the posters in this thread have killboards full of entries, mostly kills. Yup. We're all carebears.

Katrina Oniseki

Martinez
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-09-28 21:25:13 UTC
Its amazing the responses of people defending the actions of the pilot logging off. There is no reason to log off during combat to save your ship. It shouldnt be allowed in any way. I sure 1 out of 1000 people who disconnect before certain death maybe was caused by internet dropping. The rest are just lame asses that dont understand what eve used to be about.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2011-09-28 21:29:01 UTC
Martinez wrote:
There is no reason to log off during combat to save your ship.
Wow. There's a self-defeating statement if I ever saw one.
Quote:
It shouldnt be allowed in any way.
…and yet, it really can't be avoided. In fact, the game already has probably the most reasonable way of dealing with it it with its variable log-off aggression timers.
Hobogear
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-09-28 21:30:15 UTC
"EDIT: I find it funny that most of the posters in this thread have killboards full of entries, mostly kills. Yup. We're all carebears"


yes with your extensive killboard record of 83 kills i am sure you are a expert on the situation.
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